<p>right. sorry. SES is one advantage I think it’s important to recognize. And I’m really not that far off topic since the OP is about costs of sorority membership.</p>
<p>And I am absolutely fascinated by the lacrosse discussion.</p>
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<p>That is absolutely true. Part of the issue is that there is a strong opinion about the qualiy of the equipment having an impact of one’s game. However, I think it is misleading to single out lacrosse as an expensive sport by excellence.<br>
The reality is that most sports, when they reach a certain level, are becoming expensive. </p>
<p>How does lacrosse compare to ice hockey or fencing? Or football and soccer. Or sailing and paintballing? And if we push it further, how do athletics compare with other ECs or music? I am pretty certain that my parents’ investment in the instrument du jour (that could be mandatory at your school) was just as expensive as the lacrosse equipment (unless one wanted to rent.)</p>
<p>It is easy to see lacrosse as an elitist sport as its practice is confined to certain regions and the economic well-being of its participants. The cost of the equipment, however, appears to be a canard. </p>
<p>Post 100. Not at all. SES is the biggest advantage. In fact, I will try to find this study I was reading the other day which showed how a high SES high school dropout and a low SES top school grad will end up in the same place, financially, in this country. </p>
<p>xiggi: I’m not following. Are you saying cost of equipment wouldn’t keep low SES kids from participating in lacrosse?</p>
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<p>Wouldn’t soccer, basketball, cross country, and track have much lower personal equipment requirements than lacrosse, hockey, fencing, or football?</p>
<p>anecdotally, some top law firms lean to Greek experience…</p>
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<p>Back in the '80s, one older cousin was recruited into joining what was once a prominent investment bank solely on the basis of his fraternity connection. It certainly wasn’t due to his academic achievements. He didn’t last very long there, but some members of my extended family still joke about how such hiring practices and the face he was briefly employed there was a factor in their eventual demise. </p>
<p>The costs used as examples are extreme. Of my two Ds, one sorority cost about $500 per semester, the other about $700 per semester. This covered all or almost all of the social activities. There were no fines or late penalties assessed. I never heard anything about the expense of Little/Big gifts, so if there were any, it must have come out of the $100 monthly I gave them, or from their part-time job earnings. There were dorm formals and EC formals too, so I doubt that any expensive dresses deemed necessary for the sorority were much different from that desired by non-sorority women who went to other formals.</p>
<p>The cost of lacrosse equipment is also very inflated. My daughter has been wearing the same goggles since she was 8. (My other daughter has also worn the same hockey helmet since she was 8-small head!) She has run through a few mouth guards (about $10) and many many pairs of cleats (because she has wide Fred Flintstone feet and rips out the sides). Sticks? Yes, they can cost about $150, but you can also get them for $30. Clubs, camps, travel all costs money and rich kids can afford more (and better piano lessons, horseback riding, vacations to France, sleepaway camps not run by the girl scouts or YMCA). Playing on the high school team costs the same as every other sport, $60 pay-to-play fee.</p>
<p>There is a documentary made about 6 years ago about Citylax, a lacrosse club in Denver started for inner city kids by a few really special men. One was a 6th grade teacher and wanted his kids to experience the great sport he’d played on the east cost. He called all his friends in town (and lax is like a big frat in itself) and they all went through their garages and basements and came up with old sticks and helmets and gloves so these kids could play. My brother painted their fields, lent them nets, coached for free. Yep, it’s a mafia all right.</p>
<p>Lacrosse is less of a rich kids sports the farther west you go.</p>
<p>I think sorority selection is more like girl scout troop selection than some of you think. The troop leader gets to decide how many girls, who, what age. Yes, there will be another troop if you can’t get into the one you want (and it’s more traumatic in 4th grade when ALL your friends are in a troop and they don’t have room for you or you can’t afford it), but there is also another sorority and as Pizzagirl pointed out, there isn’t much difference in the organizations. Some troops are ‘rich’ because they sell a million cookies (their parents sell a million cookies) and they get to go to the White House or to Mexico, and the other troop (that you are in) goes to the park and camps in the leader’s backyard. </p>
<p>My kids went to a private school, and two mothers decided they’d have a troop for 1st grade, but limited it to a max of 20. There were 22 girls in the class. My kids had an easier time getting into their sororities than that girl scout troop.</p>
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<p>Well, do you think that football equipment costs a lot less than lacrosse? Helmet, pads, cleats … all the same! There is no stick and pockets, but buying a “good” football is not cheap! </p>
<p>The cost of equipment is one element; the money allocated to football in its organization is the difference. Lower SES can play football when the schools and districts are pushing the popular sports. </p>
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<p>There are indeed sports that have lower equipment costs. But again, when one becomes competitive, it is easy to spend more. As an example, the cleats used in lacrosse are not a major expense as they can be reused from other sports. On the other hand, take a close look at the cost of the latest Adidas or Nike that are ubiquitous in select/travel teams. I remember than 15 years ago, the latest Predator were running above 200 dollars. EVERYONE on my team had to have them! The ball to bring to practice was none other than the latest model used in the WC. </p>
<p>I think that the types of shoes selected by competitive track or XC runners are hardly cheap. Also, one can play BB with cheap shoes, but check the kiddies at the Y, and those shoes do not appear to be 24 dollars unknown Chinese imports. </p>
<p>My point was that about every activity done at a competitive level comes at a cost; the difference is if the sport is subsidized by the schools. </p>
<p>“My point is the sorority contact can be the “foot in the door” not available to every young woman. That another woman didn’t have the opportunities you did”</p>
<p>True, but that could be said of any club or activity. People who went to Harvard got connections I didn’t. Oh well. </p>
<p>*My kids went to a private school, and two mothers decided they’d have a troop for 1st grade, but limited it to a max of 20. There were 22 girls in the class. My kids had an easier time getting into their sororities than that girl scout troop. *</p>
<p>Okay - I see what you mean about girl scouts. Did anyone make a stink about it? Report it to the national office? Refuse to participate? Start a “competing” troop and invite EVERYONE?</p>
<p>Over and over there is a sense, sororities aren’t doing anything different from other exclusionary groups. I agree in principal. However, if we think exclusion is not very nice, it doesn’t matter if everyone is pretty much practicing it. It is still not nice.</p>
<p>The behavior of those two mothers doesn’t justify other mothers leaving just the daughters of those women off the birthday party invites list for the room. imo</p>
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<p>It is also similar to getting a job, in that no matter how qualified you are with credentials, if the people who interview you don’t like you, you aren’t getting the job.</p>
<p>What I dislike most about those who want to do away with sororities simply because <em>everyone</em> cannot be in the one they want, is that I think it is incredibly sexist to want to do that. (ESPECIALLY when they make fun of the activities these women do). There are many women who absolutely LOVE being in their sorority. They gain so much happiness and satisfaction from the group and the activities, they love the dressing up and party planning. And it does not in any way take away from their future success in life; it only adds to it.</p>
<p>I think there is a bit of hypocrisy at colleges like Oberlin that ban them. These colleges brag about their liberal educational environment, where pretty much anything goes and students are encouraged to do anything they want, unless of course that thing is joining a sorority that has to limit membership. </p>
<p>I don’t think there is hypocrisy when colleges, very serious about practicing inclusion of all students in any activities ban groups that practice exclusion. Obviously you are looking at it from a different perspective.</p>
<p>Many college ECs practice exclusion. The singing groups, the newspaper, the orchestra, the athletic teams are all NOT open to anyone who wants to join.</p>
<p>Inclusion at exclusive schools strikes me as hilarious, on so many levels.</p>
<p>^ lol : )</p>
<p>It’s not as though there aren’t cliques in ANY community. It’s not as though you can prevent people from finding their own set of friends and hanging around them. If everyone on CC appeared in a real life cocktail party, I know who I’d want to meet and hang around with, and who I’d just rather not spend my time with. What’s the difference? If I didn’t have a sorority, it’s not as though I just would have randomly been friends with just anyone and everyone. I’d still be selective in my choices. I like some people, am indifferent towards others, and actively dislike others, just like pretty much every human on the planet. </p>
<p>Sororities at my D’s college are about $1500/year if you do not live in the house. She does not wear makeup or designer clothes and would be only half interested in most of their activities, but I have no problem with the exclusionary process. My son’s group is three guys with things in common living in an apartment, more exclusionary than any Greek organization. Camaraderie requires shared interests. Other than the racial exclusion at Bama discussed last year, I fail to see the harm. We all aspire to be part of the wealthy, athletic, social crew; most of us are not qualified.</p>
<p>Besides, her exclusionary group is already the Honors College, and they do get special treatment. </p>