Respectfully, name calling in middle school between 13-14 yearl olds is far different from a supposed grown men, representing a formal organization calling you N–but will all due deference–worlds apart.
Really? I guess our own experience is always the worst. I guess your 18 year old daughter’s experience was more relevant than mine (15 year old).
@alh Thanks so much for replying and explaining the link between Greek life and Boola’s experiences. You did better than I did.
@monydad I really appreciate you can see both points as being valid, in both acknowledging how a fraternity environment could bring out the worst even though your son in fact had a a very positive experience.
Empathy for what this parent went through does not mean you necessarily agree with all of his conclusions.
I’d like to offer my services for answering fraternity related questions. I am in a fraternity at a Big 10 university. Please “@” me so I get the notification.
Hmmmn, some have said that the problems are not systemic, would they care to place a comment on the following:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/27/sae-fraternity-racist-song_n_6956790.html
So, really no comments??
Liability insurance became both ruinously expensive and increasingly difficult to obtain. The insurance industry ranked American fraternities as the sixth-worst insurance risk in the country—just ahead of toxic-waste-removal companies
Transfer gopher - it’s evident you’re in a “good” system. What you say may or may not apply to “bad” houses / systems. I know. It’s frustrating.
@boolaHI I’ll comment on the Oklahoma SAE’s learning the song on a “leadership cruise.”
I’m guessing this cruise was attended by three to five members from most of the chapters. The guys attend seminars on risk management, chapter management, recruitment, and so forth. But just because the guys learned the song on a leadership cruise doesn’t mean any leader of the fraternity had anything to do with it.
I don’t know what happened, but in all likelihood three or four guys from one chapter were drinking beer with three or four guys from another chapter, and one group decided to show off and do something outrageous. After all is said and done, anyone from a dozen to 20 guys probably heard the song. But I cannot imagine that the lyrics were sung at a dinner sing-a-long. In fact, there were likely blacks on the cruise.
Remember the old saying, when dog bites man, it’s not news. When man bites dog, it’s news. People say racist things all the time. The fact that an isolated incident on a busload of fraternity members made news is proof that fraternity members are actually held to a higher standard than average citizens.
Hmmmn, as a person of color, I’m a little taken back by your caviler attitude at an entirely heinous act. So, by your appraisal, and with the rationale that “people say racist things all the time”? Where do you live, what type of folks populate your life? In my circles, people are not saying racist things all the time. Your trite explanation is insulting to me, and borders on being consciptly dismissive…
Hmmmm, as a white woman who hangs in white circles, I too am taken back by Earl’s caviler attitude. In my circles people are not saying racist things all the time. If they do, there is generally a big scene around it.
Which also begs the question–as it was a leadership cruise–how did it get on the agenda and/or approved to be presented? Two scenarios are present:one, it is systemic or two, their is a profound lack of institutional control to make appropriate management oversight.
This wasn’t presented at the formal meetings. This was likely done in the after-hours social events which the National chapter had no control over.
It can’t have been formally taught. Rather, it was shared among like-minded cruise goers.
The photos of last year’s cruise include a few people of color. The vast majority of students and all the people who appeared to be alumni leaders were white, but among the students were a few blacks and Asians.
And so who thought that this was copacetic? And what is more troubling is how these individuals obtain and process information, and what they find nostalgically funny??
“Which also begs the question–as it was a leadership cruise–how did it get on the agenda and/or approved to be presented? Two scenarios are present:one, it is systemic or two, their is a profound lack of institutional control to make appropriate management oversight.”
Oh good grief. Have some common sense. The national didn’t teach it or have it as an item on the agenda. A bunch of doofuses sat around drinking in someone’s hotel room and said - did you get a load of this one. Really now.
Have you ever been to conferences? Things go on in hotel rooms that the sponsors don’t know about and don’t approve of.
Yk, if company ABC holds s conference and two coworkers sneak off and fool around in their hotel room, it wasn’t sanctioned by ABC and it wasn’t on the agenda. lol.
No, it’s confirmation bias. People think that fraternity members are a bunch of badly behaved drunk rich kids, so when something comes along with badly behaved drunk rich fraternity members, they jump on it. But if this were an all-white college sports team, or an a capella group the reaction would have been the same.
And speaking of rich kids: I believe that Levi Pettit’s apology was genuine and sincere. But the fingerprints of a pricey college consultant are obvious in how he showed his sincere remorse. A lower-middle-class student caught in the same fiasco wouldn’t have the same paid guidance, presuming any lower-middle-class student would be in OU’s SAE in the first place, which seems dubious.
Why don’t you get some common sense!!? So, I’m not sure what conferences you attend–but, having drinks and joke-telling are common fare–reciting songs where N are the part of the main chorus, is not only objectionable–but socitallly unacceptable. So, are you good with jokes that entail as a part of the joke line, sodomizing your daughter is de facto ok, as well??
Again, these are optional social organizations that are ancillary entities to universities. A death a year for the last 45 years, multiple sexual assualts every year, racist events annually (and only the ones reported), settlements that total over a100 million, or organization from a pure risk management perspective, that is at almost the same level of toxic waste management?? Please, pray tell me, what is definition of systemic problems, from your lofty all-knowing putative perch??
“believe that Levi Pettit’s apology was genuine and sincere. But the fingerprints of a pricey college consultant are obvious in how he showed his sincere remorse. A lower-middle-class student caught in the same fiasco wouldn’t have the same paid guidance”
So what? So his parents shouldn’t hire a lawyer or media consultant (assuming they did) just because others can’t? The same could be said about pretty much everything. Well to do people have more of X than less well to do. This is a fixation of yours because it constantly seems to bother you that well to do people are, well, well to do.
Boola - your diatribe at me is odd. I didn’t say singing racist songs was “acceptable” - not in any social circles I hang in. I never said I was “good with” such talk.
You had made a comment about “how did this get on the agenda” as if Racist Songs 101 was an agenda item – when it clearly wasn’t. You seem incapable of distinguishing the actions of national SAE and individual members who do and say stupid things.