<p>Mini, my own company hires over one hundred undergrads per year. We do not recruit at undergrad B schools although we hire from top MBA schools around the world.</p>
<p>The issue has nothing to do with distribution requirements, number of courses outside the major, etc. Put simply, when we hire an English major from Swarthmore or Williams we know he or she can write. When we hire an Engineering student (for a non-engineering job, by the way) from Cornell or Princeton or JHU we know they won’t need remedial math. When we hire an anthropology major from Chicago or Wellesley we know he or she won’t need help finding Malaysia on a map. We’ve hired kids with undergrad business degrees from a variety of schools (public and private) and found the talent pool decidedly mixed. Entrance requirements to the honors societies are weak; GPA’s are inflated by classes like “Organizational Leadership” or “Healthcare in Society”. And take a 90 page report and create an executive summary of three pages plus two appendices? Forget it.</p>
<p>We’d rather teach a Phi Beta Kappa in History from Amherst what Organizational Leadership is, than have to teach the Beta Alpha Psi from XYZ business program who Mao was and why you need to understand Communism in order to write a business plan for a product launch for our Beijing office.</p>
<p>My hige international company hires from local college. </p>
<p>Blossom,
What is significance of “Phi Beta Kappa”? My D. is going to be initiated in few days, we paid the $95 fee, but I have no idea about benefits. She is also in “Phi Kappa Phi”.</p>
<p>Blossom, your company is in the small minority, probably in the Northeast and means nothing in the overall scheme. Most of the Fortune 500 do just the opposite. If they want engineers they hire them–not English majors. If they hire IT people it’s computer science majors. If they need accountants they don’t hire psychology majors. Only companies that make nothing and only “sell” advice can afford to hire people who know nothing much about nothing much. For some reason I have not determined some companies will pay for their advice but most regret that later.</p>
<p>^^Phi Beta Kappa is a big deal. It’s the oldest (1776) and most prestigious collegiate honor society. There are fewer than 300 chapters. It’s for students in liberal arts and sciences. Members are elected by faculty, who themselves must be members, IIRC. </p>
<p>Some people put it on their resumes along with their degree, as in, “B.A., _____ University, Summa Cum Laude, Phi Beta Kappa”
PBK is the only one I’ve ever seen listed in this manner, even though membership in other honors societies might be listed under the “Honors” heading on the resume.</p>
<p>Barrons, the good folks at Merck, Procter and Gamble, GE and Boeing (all of whom make something the last time I checked) will be thrilled to hear that they hire people who know nothing much about nothing much.</p>
<p>When we want engineers we hire engineers. And sometimes when we want financial analysts, HR people, or marketing people we hire engineers as well. Lucky us. Somehow we run into the rest of the Fortune 500 when we are recruiting on campus- so perhaps I am mistaken that it is still a competitive hiring market (although lucky for us, much less competitive than in 2007 or 2000 when every hedge fund and dot.com in America was chasing the same top pool of campus candidates.)</p>
<p>What we do little of right now is to hire undergrad business majors. If your company hires them, that’s terrific. I know scores of unemployed kids in their 20’s who majored in Marketing, Sports Management, Real Estate Management, and my favorite, “International Business” who would love to send you their resumes.</p>
<p>blossom,
you are not mistaken. However, your assumption that other colleges do not provide sufficient education to be an asset to any employers that hire their graduates is absolutely incorrect. It might be a secret though, you might not be aware of it, but very many companies with huge international presence prefer graduates from local colleges (I mean, if they hire to headquarters, then college at this location is just fine, nobody really cares. However, I was shocked when I was asked about my GPA after about 30 years of experience.)</p>
<p>Thanks, zapfino. Too late for D’s resume. Her Summa was too late also. She has been accepted. Her awards are just an honor at this point, but we are proud, more so that she is done well without…</p>
<p>I don’t see why it has to be one or the other, one type of education is best and the rest are all wrong… People think and learn differently, and it is good to have educational options suited to a variety of students. I think the whole idea behind Dr. Kington’s article is not that the liberal arts is the only way to go, but that it has tremendous value in and of itself.</p>
<p>The article is not right or wrong, it is a marketing of cetain type that Dr. Kington belongs. It is great when people belonging to organization promote this organization, it is applauded by employer, no matter who you work for. It does not mean though that it has to be taken at its’ face value, and as SDonCC pointed we should stay open to “educational options suited to a variety of students.” I am not sure how the last sentance "I think the whole idea behind Dr. Kington’s article is not that the liberal arts is the only way to go, but that it has tremendous value in and of itself. " is fitting with idea of staying open minded. It seems to be contradictory. I go with different glove for different hand approach. Liberal Arts is not for our family, I am glad we have other choices. Enough of that was going on in HS.</p>
<p>…as did, apparently, the non-liberal arts path he chose for himself prior to becoming the president of a liberal arts college (BS/MD from Univ of Mich, MBA/PhD from Wharton… )</p>
<p>I am very pro liberal arts education and my D’s choice of attending University of Texas, Plan II program is in my opinion a great choice. Liberal Arts Education in the shell of large University. The Director of Plan II gave a talk in 2008 about Plan II and said this…</p>
<p>** In 2008, Plan II remains dedicated to its original purpose of providing a rich, classical education, in the words of its founder Dean H. T. Parlin, an “education for life, not just for a living.” Our aim is to produce literate men and women with a broad base of
knowledge, the intellectual nimbleness and skills to adapt to any circumstance, and the prudence to understand the ethical consequences of their actions. We want to instill in
them a love of learning of its own sake and give them the tools to learn whatever they want for their own sakes.</p>
<p>For those reasons, the core curriculum of Plan II continues to include, among other things, the study of world literature, philosophy, higher mathematics, logic and the foundational sciences of physics and biology. In a world of rapid change and shifting
values, these disciplines teach us much about where we’ve been, where to go, and how to get there. The world waits, a wise friend once said to me, and we never know what it has
in store for us. We do know that having a Plan II degree, the “educational equivalent of a Swiss Army knife,” leaves one prepared for anything. **</p>
<p>For my company I would much rather hire a kid that has those skills than a business major who has been schooled in accounting and economics.(Ideally they would be educated in Liberal Arts and Practical Skills) Liberal Art students tend to the be movers and shakers that the business majors work for.</p>
<p>I seriously doubt Boeing hires English majors to design airplanes and as I live in Seattle I do know for a fact that 90% of their professional track hires are either engineering grads or similar (comp sci) with a few physics majors mixed in. Virtually every Boeing person I have met was an engineer first. </p>
<p>Here’s a list where GE recruits undegrads–not many LACs
United States
If GE does not have an event at your school, be sure to contact your local placement office for interviewing details. If you do not find your school listed, you are welcome to apply directly to a leadership program through its information page on this site.</p>
<p>Participating Institutions
Boston College
Boston University
Bucknell University
Carnegie-Mellon University
Case Western University
Clarkson University
Clemson University
Cornell University
Duke University
Georgia Institute of Technology
Indiana University
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Michigan State University
North Carolina Agricultural & Technical State University
North Carolina State University
Northeastern University
Northwestern University
Ohio State University
Pennsylvania State University
Purdue University
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Syracuse University
Texas A&M University
University of Cincinnati
University of Connecticut
University of Florida
University of Illinois (Urb-Cham)
University of Maryland (Baltimore County & College Park)
University of Massachusetts (Amherst)
University of Miami (Florida)
University of Michigan
University of North Carolina (Chapel Hill)
University of Notre Dame
University of Puerto Rico (Mayaquez)
University of Southern California
University of Texas (Austin)
University of Virginia
University of Wisconsin (Madison)
Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University
Worcester Polytechnic Institute</p>
<p>Should I go on or were you just blowing smoke?</p>
<p>OK, Pretty similar for Merck with lots of foreign schools–all those Indian sociology majors ;-)</p>
<p>PS–P&G does not do any general on campus recruitment and believes heavily in applicant testing to select candidates. It does recruit on campus for engineering and technical jobs.</p>
<p>P&G does on campus recruitment for MBA’s or at least they used to. Its been a long time, but I am pretty sure they were just fine with an MBA with a liberal arts undergrad major, including from a LAC.</p>
<p>Nobody hires English majors to design airplanes- you are either completely missing the point or being argumentative (or both.) But English majors get hired in marketing, investor relations, HR, sales, and a host of other functions at Companies Which Make Things- which was your own terminology. Your claim that liberal arts students could only get hired for companies that DON’T make things- not sure what you were implying but it is patently false.</p>
<p>I would not expect a LAC grad to be hired for an engineering job - by the same token I wouldnt expect a business major to be hired for an engineering job. I also wouldnt expect a human resources major to be hired for an accounting job. </p>
<p>The business jobs that Lib arts types are hired for, are, afaict, sales, marketing, HR, etc. Soft business jobs, wherein the undergrads they compete with are mostly “soft” business grads. (I mean I suppose an engineer could try to get an HR job, but that seems like an awful waste to me - highly technical sales jobs are something else, of course)</p>
<p>I am not sure who is favored in those. Of course not all LAC’s are equal, nor are all undergrad business programs (and then there are econ majors who sometimes go for jobs like that)</p>
<p>Personally, I find this particular section rather offensive. Since when did choosing to be an engineering student at a research university make me less interested in social justice than if I had chosen to attend a liberal arts college? I am personally interested in energy-related issues (e.g. solving the energy crisis), and I am extremely interested in educational institutions, government agencies, and non-profits. I chose to go into engineering because I enjoy math/science (primarily physics), but also because I wanted to have technical expertise.
I am an extremely strong believer in the critical thinking skills I believe are developed through a liberal arts education, but I believe that these skills in combination with the technical skills I will gain as an engineering major are most applicable to what I personally want to do. </p>
<p>I applied to Swarthmore EDII, and I almost attended Smith College. Does the fact that I attend Carnegie Mellon really change my goals and who I am all that much? Certainly, I will be shaped by my college experience, but I don’t think the points made in the article are fair. I support liberal arts colleges, but attending a research u doesn’t mean my goals are so different from these purportedly more altruistic LAC students…</p>
Mr Kington should perhaps enroll in Grinnell’s MAT 115 - Intro Statistics. Correlation does not imply causation, and we should be exceedingly careful reaching broad conclusions when there are some very significant potential lurking variables.</p>
<p>I would hardly be surprised if LACs tend to attract more “socially-minded” students. It would also not be shocking if LACs tend to admit such students. Indeed, Grinnell claims to look for students with a “special combination of intellectual commitment and personal spark” in its admissions process.</p>
<p>Mr Kington lists examples of LACs with involved students, but similar lists could be made at any large university. What he never provides is a solid warrant for the claim that LACs provide a causative shift towards social commitment in their students.</p>
<p>A broader question is whether the survey results cited actually correlate with any significant action to improve the community or advocate for social justice. We don’t really have any reason to believe this is true either.</p>
<p>B-I did not see many LACs on any of the lists for general recruiting I posted–did you?? When you are not on the recruitment visit lists it is much harder to get a foot in the door. And these were just undergrad recruiting–not MBA. The facts are very few major Fortune 500 level firms recruit at LACs to any extent. A group of the NY/Boston centric financial and consulting firms will recruit at a few of the very best LACs in the northeast. Those are the facts.</p>
<p>How generous is Grinnell with non-loan financial aid and scholarships?</p>
<p>The high cost of a bachelor’s degree education at many schools these days means that most students do need to consider job and career prospects of their major and courses in order to avoid graduating as a candidate for being profiled in a magazine article about being “$150,000 in debt with no job or a low paying job that will not allow paying off the debt in any reasonable time”. Unless a school is very generous with non-loan financial aid and scholarships, a purely liberal arts education without regard for job and career prospects may be a luxury item affordable only by those from very wealthy and generous families (although a few of the possible liberal arts majors, like math, physics, statistics, and economics, do have decent job and career prospects).</p>
<p>While widespread knowledge of the liberal arts is good for society, it may be disturbing that it is becoming too costly to study many such subjects to the level of majoring in them for a bachelor’s degree.</p>
)</p>