<p>My D was admitted to multiple BS. Our top two choices are Groton and St Paul's. Any comments from parents, alumni, students as to which is best?</p>
<p>search for posts made by paleozoic. He often made many comparisons between the two schools. I can’t imagine trying to decide between those two…both such extraordinary schools for the right kind of child.</p>
<p>Both great schools, but SPS is just a bit better. Our best friend’s children went to Groton, and our son is at SPS. So I know them both fairly well. You can’t go wrong, but I prefer the atmosphere is nicer at SPS, there are no day students and the size is just a bit larger (without being huge like A or E).</p>
<p>[The</a> Harvard Crimson :: Magazine :: Groton Not Forgotten](<a href=“http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=121256]The”>http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=121256)</p>
<p>This might help you decide…</p>
<p>Dear pan1956, to paraphrase my teenager, OMG!!! Two breathtaking articles have attracted my interest this evening, one a NY Times article concerning Miss Porter’s (today’s Sunday Styles section) and the other in the Harvard Crimson, thanks to you. My daughter has been accepted to both these schools (Groton and MPS) and it gives me great pause to continue to consider them. This is very disturbing, and at the very least I have some very pointed questions to ask during my revisits!!</p>
<p>Thank you, neatoburrito. Your suggestions concerning archived post by paleozoic were quite helpful</p>
<p>Skafe, can you post what form your daughter would be in and any special interests, considerations?</p>
<p>I wish I could remember my former sign in name because I did an extensive comparison of the two schools a year or so ago. The article referenced about hazing in this thread really has no relevance to Groton today. (It was published 8 years ago and SPS has had more recent and widespread hazing articles more recently.) Much has changed at Groton, including the headmaster. The bottom line is that SPS is more of a college-like experience and Groton treats younger kids as just that. SPS is larger and can offer more courses and has a really spectacular campus, but Groton is a more intimate atmosphere where they really care about the kids and the courses are amazing. I think Groton is a more academic enviromnment, while SPS also caters more to the arts. Groton can’t offer quite the same level of facilities but, for its size, it is incredible what it does offer. Personally, I think the students work harder on average at Groton, although I am sure many people may disagree with me. Girls seem to do better at SPS than some boys, presumably because of their earlier maturity, but you are seeing many more boys repeating 1 or more years before entering SPS to compensate. (This is much less true at Groton.) For the record, we turned down SPS for Groton for our S and have no regrets. Both are great schools. You have to discern where you think your child will fit in better, because there are very different characters to the two schools.</p>
<p>I wish I could remember my former sign in name because I did an extensive comparison of the two schools a year or so ago. The article referenced about hazing in this thread really has no relevance to Groton today. (It was published 8 years ago and SPS has had more recent and widespread hazing articles more recently.) Much has changed at Groton, including the headmaster. The bottom line is that SPS is more of a college-like experience and Groton treats younger kids as just that. SPS is larger and can offer more courses and has a really spectacular campus, but Groton is a more intimate atmosphere where they really care about the kids and the courses are amazing. I think Groton is a more academic enviromnment, while SPS also caters more to the arts. Groton can’t offer quite the same level of facilities but, for its size, it is incredible what it does offer. Personally, I think the students work harder on average at Groton, although I am sure many people may disagree with me. Girls seem to do better at SPS than some boys, presumably because of their earlier maturity, but you are seeing many more boys repeating 1 or more years before entering SPS to compensate. (This is much less true at Groton.) For the record, we turned down SPS for Groton for our S and have no regrets. Both are great schools. You have to discern where you think your child will fit in better, because there are very different characters to the two schools.</p>
<p>Yes, SPS does a great job of providing wonderful arts programs and opportinities. I am always amazed by the talents displayed by the school’s students. They have a fantastic music program where the choruses & orchestra are top notch. They have a very strong ballet program - by far the best of any academic BS program. The acting program and fine arts programs are also wonderful. SPS provides an opportunity for kids to excel at the arts. Some of these are kids who are not as interested in athletics but many of these artistic kids excel in sports as well.</p>
<p>In contrast to what Old1 claims above, all these kids also benefit from a highly academic environment at SPS. I don’t think Old1’s claim that Groton is a more academic environment is true. Both Groton and SPS are among the best academic programs in the country. Any student would find themselves academically challenged at either school, yet SPS offers more to develop the whole person - a well-rounded person. </p>
<p>Yes, SPS has a hazing incident as well, but not widespread as I can only think of one. In the interest of full disclosure, here’s a link to an article about that incident:
<a href=“http://www.dispatchesfromthevanishingworld.com/dispatch32/d32_1.html[/url]”>http://www.dispatchesfromthevanishingworld.com/dispatch32/d32_1.html</a>
There was a hate mail incident last year but no proof that it originated on campus as the letters were sent via USPS. </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/03/17/messages_from_the_dark_side/[/url]”>http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/03/17/messages_from_the_dark_side/</a></p>
<p>Creative1-if you read my post carefully, you will see that I used the term “also” in describing the arts at SPS. I have never suggested that it had anything less than tremendous academics. Indeed, it offers more courses and the opportunity for those students who really have intense interests in a subject to pursue them in greater depth, more akin to the Phillipses. My comparative comment was meant to describe the difference in the atmospheres at the two schools as I perceive them. I personally think the kids who attend SPS are a little more well-rounded and the ones who attend Groton are a little more wonkish. That leads, a fortiori, to more emphasis on the academics at Groton by default. I don’t think Groton kids take the sports or EC’s as seriously as some places because they are really focused on the schoolwork. That is all I meant.</p>
<p>Thanks for clarifying your viewpoint Old1. It seems as if I did misinterpret them.</p>
<p>Skafe, given that you’re comparing two extremely strong schools, trying to determine which is “better,” as if you could determine it based on objective criteria, is both nearly impossible and likely not very useful. What you need to determine is which is the better FIT for your daughter. I would suggest focusing less on better vs. worse and more on differences between the schools that may be relevant for your D given her interests, needs, and goals (e.g., is the smaller size of Groton appealing? Are SPS’s interdisciplinary courses in the humanities appealing? Etc.). Good luck!</p>
<p>Thank you peateacher! in the process of revisiting both. Will decide soon!</p>
<p>My son and wife are revisiting them next week as well. Only Groton and SPS.</p>
<p>Just returned from Groton revisit and now I am more confused than ever! I thought I was sure I wanted SPS but Groton’s “small is better” theme, excellent dorms, superior faculty (credentials are a who’s who of prestigious schools from around the world, including Oxford and the Sorbonne), Harkness teaching, dynamic but personable headmaster and admissions personnel that knew my name and treated me like an old friend, structured third form life, and finally, great cafeteria food (did I mention excellent curriculum), make this “preppy” institution tough to turn down!</p>
<p>SPS, which I visited last Saturday, was excellent too! The Humanities integrated curriculum, emphasis on the Arts and environment, FRIENDLIEST student body and faculty of all top ten BS, study abroad program, extensive sports opportunities, excellent health facility (only school with 24h, live in MD, Dr Massey), security/safety personnel (WRITTEN evacuation/emergency plans with siren and individual buildingcommunication systems). Only negative was poor cellular reception (ATT&T, iPhone). WINTERSET PLEASE HELP!!!</p>
<p>skafe - I think the poor cellular reception is a good thing! It all adds to the community feel of SPS. Students will walk the paths and greet and talk to each other rather than head down, plugged in, talking on a cell phone. Each student has a dedicated phone line in their room with their own phone number and answering system so communication with family and friends from home is not a problem.</p>
<p>Go to the SPS thread, watch the you tube chapel address links that were recently posted and tell me if that isn’t a community you would want to be a part of!</p>
<p>Creative1, can you comment on this “freedom with responsibility” concept? I’m struggling with the notion of no lights out, little checks and balances ( would the teachers at SPS know if my daughter was NOT in class because of illness, etc?), and mixture with fifth and six formers in the dorms with their much more “experienced” social norms. Any comments, especially, in light that Groton has a lot more structure and check-INS, etc.?</p>
<p>Skafe - sorry for not responding sooner. We haven’t had any real problems with the “freedom with responsibility” thing. I believe it is all about the kids learning early on how to juggle their responsibilities. They are given some rope but that rope will be yanked in as needed. There are safety nets in place. Teachers are in touch with the student’s advisor. If your grades slip or you aren’t getting your work done, your advisor will most likely put you in mandatory study hall which I believe is 4-5 nights per week. Skip a class? Early check that night - stuck in your room w/o visitors. More absences? The punishments get more severe. </p>
<p>The program works in my opinion because your first year is the time to make mistakes, especially if you’re coming in as a freshman. Some kids will never have issues, will manage their time wisely from the start, etc. Other students will learn from their mistakes and adjust their behavior accordingly when they find that staying up until late affected their classes, their sports practice, etc. Some students will need assistance in modifying their behavior and thats why the safety nets are in place. The community is small and teachers do talk to each other about the students. </p>
<p>Here’s an example of how the system works: 4 mornings a week, there is a mandatory all school chapel - a school meeting of sorts - where all faculty and students come together for announcements, guest speakers, etc. Well, most teenagers aren’t thrilled with waking up in the morning so of course some are tempted to “bag” (skip) chapel. Each student is assigned to a faculty member who keeps tabs on their daily chapel attendance and reports any absence. Also, for example, across the aisle from my daughter’s chapel seat will be her advisor. Behind her a few rows back is her sports coach. Both are there every morning to see hows she’s doing - as well as other faculty who know her well. At a glance, her advisor can see whether she looks tired that morning or whether she has a smile on her face. </p>
<p>There are check-ins at SPS as well that are strictly adhered to. 3rd formers (freshman) also start off with an additional check-in at the beginning of the evening I believe. I think the kids refer to it as “touch base”. Maybe a student will jump in here and correct me if I am wrong. Computers turn off at midnight but you are right, there is no lights out.</p>
<p>Bottom line, we personally have not had any major problems. has my child stayed p too late some nights? I’m sure. Did she spend to much time socializing her first semester? Most definitely. 
But she has grown and adjusted her habits. In my opinion, much better to do that now than to do it later in high school or college. </p>
<p>Also, maybe more than some other schools, I think the admissions committee at SPS does look to accept students they feel will do well in the SPS environment and I think maturity and disciplined study habits are something they look for. Very occasionally, a child won’t be able to hack it. However, that is true with all boarding schools. </p>
<p>if I thought my child needed a load of structure, was immature and I had to constantly get on their case about their studying at home, perhaps a school with more structured study hours would be a better fit than SPS. If your child doesn’t fit into that category, SPS is very likely to be a good fit.</p>