Grumpy and Disappointed after Yale Tour today :(

Colleges and Universities A-Z Yale University
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<p>My kid's just going into Junior Year of HS and I guess you can say we inaugurated the college search process today. I had visited the Yale Campus a few times in the past for various reasons, and had always found it quite beautiful, so when we were passing thru New Haven on I-95, we decided to make an impromptu stop to take a look around. Very preliminary -- no info sessions.</p>

<p>It was a gorgeous day -- and the campus didn't disappoint. Harkness, the colleges, the courtyards, all glistened in the late summer sun. The students -- I guess the upperclassmen were moving in -- glistened as well: all freshly scrubbed, not a zit or an extra pound or two among them. They looked healthy, happy and ambitious in their Yale (or Nantucket) T-shirts, not grungy like students in my day. Pretty much what you would expect from the carefully cultivated off-spring of the 1% (or, to be, fair, the 3%).</p>

<p>We parked by Silliman College and walked through the rotunda of Woolsey Hall. As we exited on to the big plaza in front of the Beinecke Library we happened to bump in to a campus tour in progress and decided to eavesdrop. The tour guide was a nice enough chap as he struggled to engage his audience with superlatives about Yale's famed rare book library. I personally love that building, but that's beside the point.</p>

<p>He then -- I wish I could insert an audio file of ominous organ chords right here -- turned to his right and pointed toward Commons. He described it as " the big building with the humungous columns with all the Latin writing above them." He then went on to giggle that since he doesn't know Latin, he doesn't know what it says.</p>

<p>Where do I start?!?! I gasped. Commons was built as a war memorial shortly after WW I to honor the many hundreds of Yale grads who perished in that war, as well as other conflicts. Unlike today, that was a time when the elite felt it a duty to serve their country and the lost include many scion of the nation's preeminent families of the day. There's a HUGE memorial stone right in that plaza that clearly says so. The "Latin" words he referred are not Latin at all but are French and refer to towns in Belgium and France where some of the bloodiest battles of WW I occurred. These were some of the most important battles in Western civilization. The inscriptions include names like "MARNE", "SOMME", "ARGONNE", "YPRES", etc. Not obscure to anyone of even modest erudition.</p>

<p>Did this kid REALLY eat most of his freshman meals in this building not realizing it was a war memorials to scores of people who had given their lives selflessly? He probably thinks the names of the fallen etched in to the walls of the Rotunda were just the names of all the Yalies who had gotten summer internships at Goldman Sachs since the 18th century. That's the zeitgeist, even at Yale. Can a Yalie not tell the difference between a list of French villages and a Latin inscription?</p>

<p>I didn't want to embarrass him in front of the tour group, so I didn't butt in to point out that these were very important battles, not a Latin inscription. At the end of the tour, I jovially corrected him. He just giggled again and said something like "Like, really?" I didn't push it, but I really don't think he could have placed WWI in the correct century.</p>

<p>I just didn't expect this at Yale. Isn't Yale supposed to be a giant in the humanities with one of the world's great history departments? You keep reading how the admit rate keeps falling into the low single digits at these schools and make the assumption that these kids are really smart. But somehow this kid had gotten through all these hurdles and survived at least two years at Yale and in terms of general knowledge seems as ignorant and vapid as a brick. Is this level of sophistication really the best our country can do? Ironically, he will probably graduate with "Latin" honors, as I understand they give them out like after dinner mints at schools like Yale.</p>

<p>Now don't jump at me and say that this was just one kid. I seriously doubt that I ran into the only undergraduate who had no sense of what WW I was. I have read the articles by this guy William Deresiewicz, who used to teach at Yale, if I recall, and I am definitely getting the sense that there's to what this guy says.</p>

<p>When you scratch below the glistening surface, dig a little deeper into the Yale brand, there is less there than meets the eye.</p>

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<p>Most Yale students are not on-campus during the summer months – this is especially true in mid-August when Yale’s Summer School has officially ended, but before students have returned to campus for the fall season – so not sure who was giving the tour. When we were looking at Yale with my son and daughter, we toured the school 3 times during the school year and did not have the same experience as you did. </p>

<p>FWIW: No matter what school you tour, it’s important to remind your child to look beyond the tour guide. Often times the guide will color a student (and parents) view of a college – and guides are often hit or miss. For example, when we toured Princeton, we kept jumping tour groups because each guide was so awful (I think we left and joined 3 different groups and never found a guide that my daughter “connected” with.) And Harvard is known for giving the absolute worst tours of any college because Admissions doesn’t seem to put an effort into being “tour friendly.” Since you seem to know so much about Yale, you might want to send Admissions a note about your experience and try attending an info session when the school is actually in session.</p>

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<p>Maybe a townie was giving the tour? I almost spit my tea out! Really? LOLOL this is the funniest thing I’ve ever read here on CC. I can assure you that elite, Ivy League schools, especially YALE would not allow a townie to give a tour. Wow, what a wonderful way to excuse this students ignorance. </p>

<p>FWIW, DD asked about being a tour guide during freshman year, she was told that only upperclassmen are allowed to work in the admissions office. </p>

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<p>I was planning to be civil until I read the last three paragraphs. If you think that other schools are better, do not send your child to Yale. Simple.</p>

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<p>Wow, you are generalizing about the entire humanities department at Yale based on one ditzy tour guide? Yeah, I think you should look somewhere else for your kid. And make sure you interview EVERY SINGLE STUDENT to be confident they are all smart enough for your liking.</p>

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<p>for the record, William Deresiewicz was talking about ALL elite schools: <a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/a-mind-is-a-terrible-thing-to-waste-at-yale/2014/08/15/b3e6334a-22fd-11e4-8593-da634b334390_story.html”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/a-mind-is-a-terrible-thing-to-waste-at-yale/2014/08/15/b3e6334a-22fd-11e4-8593-da634b334390_story.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Well, I, too, was going to jump on the OP for judging all of Yale based on one part of a partial tour–but I realized that I’d be doing pretty much the same thing by judging the OP based on a single post.</p>

<p>So, instead–it may be that this particular student wasn’t well trained as a tour guide, or that he didn’t pay attention during his training. I doubt if he was a townie, but it is possible that this was a tour directed to the general public and not to prospective students–Yale offers both. I don’t know if the guides for both kinds of tours are the same.</p>

<p>But beyond that, I suspect that it’s true that many Yale students don’t know much at all about World War I, and they also may not know much about the history of Yale alumni serving in the military. There are a couple of reasons for this. First, a reason that doesn’t have much to do with Yale: World War I is no longer emphasized in high school history classes. World War II receives much more focus, for multiple reasons. (And a lot of high schools don’t have very comprehensive American history classes in the first place.) This may be a bad thing, but it’s not Yale’s fault.</p>

<p>Second, though, I think for a long time there has been an anti-war, anti-military attitude at Yale. This was a big deal during the Vietnam era, and it continued in later years, in part because of discrimination against gays in the military. This has begun to change in recent years–ROTC has returned to Yale with comparatively little controversy, and my perception is that most students view it positively, or at least neutrally, especially when they get to know some of the students who are in ROTC. So we may see a change in this overall attitude.</p>

<p>There may be other colleges with a stronger focus on this element of the college’s history. OP might want to consider touring colleges like VMI or the Citadel, which probably have a very different vibe.</p>

<p>Just in passing, I note that the memorial in the Woolsey Hall rotunda doesn’t only honor Yale alumni who died defending this country. It also honors those who fought against it on behalf of the Confederate States of America. For what it’s worth.</p>

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<p>I just called The Yale Visitor Center. I was told that the tours that THEY offer AND admissions tours are never done by someone not affiliated with Yale. They are always given by undergrads or by adcoms during high volume periods. </p>

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<p>This tour guide was probably an undergraduate. I think this shows that it’s pretty important to train tour guides well, because they can give a negative (and false) impression of the college. I note that the OP has only two posts on CC, and the other one (presumably made before the tour) has nice things to say about Yale students. So perhaps OP (who admits that his reaction is “grumpy”) can get over the bad impression that student made on him. If his kid applies to Yale, and gets in, he should come to Bulldog Days–he’ll probably get a pretty good impression then.</p>

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<p>Very disappointing. So many of you using the term “townie” in an elitist, condescending manner. So is it just the Yale students who are so superior to their neighbors around them or does it include each of you using that term as well as the people in your “circles”?</p>

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<p>The first person who used the term “townie” is NewHavenCTmom. If I’m not mistaken, she IS a townie, so I don’t think she was portraying an elitist attitude. Gibby just said “not sure who was giving the tour.” I confess I did say, “I doubt if he was a townie,” because I also think the tours are given by undergraduates. I don’t consider “townie” to be a pejorative term, at least in this context. A townie is a person from New Haven who’s not connected with Yale. That’s all.</p>

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<p>^Well NewHavenCTmom’s comments definitely sounded pejorative, but I guess she has that right if she lives in NH.</p>

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<p>Actually–to do a close reading here–I think NewHavenCTmom was reacting (sarcastically) to the suggestion by gibby that perhaps the tour was being given by a non-Yale person. I think she may, in fact, have been defending townies, and saying that this was a Yale student giving a poor tour performance.</p>

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<p>Ok, I’m more than willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. </p>

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<p>On my Yale tour, and I’m a townie, the tour guide was a Lit major who told us he was taking advanced courses in quantum mechanics. I was impressed by this merging in one person of CP Snow’s two cultures. Maybe I shouldn’t generalize from one person, but it did give the impression that Yale, unlike “lesser” institutions, has students who are good in a variety of areas, foxes not hedgehogs. </p>

<p>Re WW I: given that it’s the centennial, there has been a fair amount of attention to it. Maybe that guide will increase his awareness. </p>

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<p>As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, I did college tours with two different kids, and we had crazily different tour guides at the same college several times. The information sessions were also markedly different at certain schools (especially at Brown and Harvard). You really have to take these with a grain of salt.</p>

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<p>@Hunt‌
@CHD2013‌
No, @gibby‌ used that term…read post # 2 again…as you can see, I’m questioning gibby…gibby said the tour was probably given by a townie! Trust me!! That’s why I spit out my tea…it was hilarious to think that he/she would use that excuse…blame one of us! Because we are all ignorant And clueless possibly?? Lol </p>

<p>He/she edited post #1 at 7:32am. I would NEVER use that term…it sounds very silly if you ask me. LOLOL I refer to us NHV folks as NEWHAVENITES. </p>

<p>I guess he thought better of his use of the word and edited it…</p>

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<p>@Hunt‌ YESSSS!!! In agreement to post #12!!! </p>

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<p>I never thought “townie” was intended to be insulting, any more than “Yalie” is. I’ve heard it used in such sentences as, “Most of the people at Toad’s are townies.”</p>

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<p>All the more reason to apply to Princeton instead. </p>