<p>A good friend of mine went into my school's counseling office to talk about college options and other such things a couple days ago. He came out visibly dissapointed and upon asking him what was wrong I myself was a little surprised.</p>
<p>The counselor said that his stats</p>
<p>3.7 UW
4.2W
Cr 700
M 770
W 700
Total 2170
SATIIs: Math 750 Chem 720 UShist:790
FBLA awards on national state and regional levels
3 significant leadership positions (prez of two..mayb 3 clubs and capt of soccer team + asb)
Varsity soccer
active Theater ...actor</p>
<p>were only second if not "third" class and would barely get him into the mid UCs ( we are "in state" in California). Apparently the counselor thinks that UCSD would be a low reach and that UCLA as well as Berkeley are mid to high reaches. He went on to tell my friend [now a second semester junior] not to bother applying to any ivies or any near-ivies like John Hopkins, U chicago, Rice ect. Our counselor's main reason apparently was that the UnW GPA and the SAT scores were too low to be even remotely competitive.</p>
<p>I was a bit stunned because I never thought that a 3.7/4.2 GPA and a 2170 SAT were bad numbers at all. What really worried me was that my stats are nearly identical albeit a tad higher here and there.
Would you agree with the Guidance counselor? Do you think that the higher UCs and lower ivy/privates are essentially not even worth applying to? </p>
<p>Over-critical definitely. I can’t see how a guidance counselor would feel compelled to be that harsh; making a realistic assessment is possible without discouraging a student.</p>
<p>I’d say anything is worth applying to. The counselor is essentially saying that your friend would be an auto-reject, which (barring some major disciplinary problems or a criminal record) I find hard to believe. Those stats are on the low side but will still give you and your friend a good chance at the UCs (and a small chance at the Ivies). I honestly can’t believe the counselor essentially said “Don’t even try.” Wrong message, I should think.</p>
<p>That high school guidance counselor probably never had stats anywhere close to this kid’s stats. </p>
<p>Unbelievable. His stats are in the 99th percentile. If the GC doesn’t know that, s/he should be fired. More to the point, this kid is midway thru his junior year. By next fall, his stats could be higher!</p>
<p>Honestly, if s/he tells students like your friend these things, imagine what s/he tells kids with stats in - say - the 95th percentile!???</p>
<p>It would be funny to have your friend email this GC and politely reiterate what s/he said…kind of like…“I just wanted to make sure that I understand what you told me so I can look into the right colleges…” Your friend should list some of the things that the GC said and ask if he understood the GC correctly. If the GC responds in an email that supports those words, then the parents should take that email and demand an explanation.</p>
<p>You need to figure out the UC GPA–how to do that you can find on the UC site. My guess is that it would be high enough for many UCs and maybe some of the other schools you mention. You can check the Common Data Sets for those. But as they say, if you don’t apply your chances drop to zero.</p>
<p>The issue may be that the GC has seen multiple kids with perfect/2250+/4.0 etc stats get rejected from Ivies, etc., and doesn’t realize that it’s not the stats that make the distinction at that level. Perhaps someone needs to explain the processes to this GC better.</p>
<p>While your buddy could still improve his resume to a certain extent, he does look viable, for a still-developing junior, for Ivy-level admissions. He’s got a reasonable shot. Just work at it. GC is off-base in his negativity, in my opinion.</p>
<p>I’m just bratty enough that if a GC said that to my kid, I might say, “You’re right, my kid doesn’t have much hope, his scores are just mediocre, actually they’re quite poor, so all he’s qualified to become is a guidance counselor.”</p>
<p>^Haha, collegemom. We can only wish. Because the truth is the GCs have a modicum of power. They write the recommendations too (along with the teachers). We don’t know what they write. Perhaps what this GC was trying to say to the OP is, “I can write a glowing letter for these UCs but not for the ivies because there are much better/deserving students at this school.”</p>
<p>Of course, it’s objective and silly, but that might be what he/she was hinting at.</p>
<p>Definatley over-critical, but the GPA is a little low as is the SAT, but it isn’t necessarilly an auto-reject. Probably needs some boosting as you got into the final 2 semesters that matter, but I’d say in-state at the UCs is a definite High Match-Low Reach type of range, and the Ivies are probably Mid-Reach if essays are sterling. Not necessarilly completley off-base, but this GC seems to have come off rather harsh.</p>
<p>My son’s GPA was also 3.7 UW, 4.2 W, the same as the one in the OP, and his SATS just slightly worse (actually he tried to use his ACT score of 33). He was class of 2009. He didn’t apply to any ivy’s - the highest level schools he appled to were Duke, UMich, UVa, William and Mary, UNC. He got wait listed at UMich & W&M, rejected from the others. But all the other schools he applied to put him in the honors programs and offered him scholarships. So he was overqualified for everywhere that accepted him. </p>
<p>So, I get what the GC the OP quoted is saying, that he is not a shoe in for an ivy or near ivy. But that doesn’t mean that he shouldn’t try to apply- I still think it was right for my son to try- , and it will start to get easier to get into schools starting next year as the class size goes down (2009 & 2010 are the peak years for high school graduations, 2011 starts getting smaller.)</p>
<p>I’m curious about whether the GC really said what your friend thought he heard. When I taught, often students grossly misheard what I told them about their talents, etc. </p>
<p>Still, your GC may have seen students with similar or better stats from your school be rejected by the schools she listed. Your friend’s class rank also may be a reason why she as pessimistic. What is your friend’s class rank?</p>
<p>Meanwhile, your friend has nothing but time and money to lose by applying to where he wishes.</p>
<p>Without being a fly on the wall it is hard to know if the GC was off base or was just cautioning about the difficult admit rate at these schools. Also you don’t say how competitive his course load was and his AP’s. The leadership and EC’s seem good but not WOW!</p>
<p>But fyi, my daughter was accepted to UChicago, Brown, UCB, UCSD as well as several other competitive schools with 3.7 UW, about same SAT I AND II, 5 AP, strong course load/transcript at competitive private, stronger EC’s, great rec’s. </p>
<p>So apply where you like but put together a thoughtful list with reaches, matches and a safety or two that you can ‘sell’ to your GC.</p>
<p>Oh, you and your friend should go to the UC Pathways website and recalculate your gpa to the UC way, as suggested above, that way you will have something better to base chances on.</p>
<p>My son wanted to apply to some “crazy” reach schools for his stats, his rationale was; “I have maybe a 10-20% chance of getting in. If I don’t apply I have a 0% chance of getting in.” Waiting to hear…</p>
<p>Is that a 3.7 GPA with the most rigorous courseload offered in his school? If that is the case then the GC was definitely being over-cautious. The schools you mentioned are certainly not auto-admits, but if your friend is really interested in attending he would be foolish not to seek admission. As others have said, he should just be sure that he has fall-back positions.</p>
<p>I would guess that the kid wanted to hear “You’re a shoe-in” which of course, none of those schools are shoe-ins even for the perfect scores. There is probably a combination of things going on: She is probably trying to temper the expectations and the kid is hearing you’re crap. The other thing that is missing to this puzzle is the trend of the students. If freshman and sophomore year were straight As but there has been a downward trend in grades, the odds are a little more against you. I think it’s always better to be trending upward while taking harder and harder classes while also becoming more involved in your EC’s - whether that be sports, clubs or theater.</p>
<p>When people just list their stats, it’s generally not the whole picture.</p>
<p>Whether you agree or not use the GC’s assessment as a wake up call. You can let it discourage you or be an incentive to buff up your gpa and add APs/ or not, if you are satisfied.</p>
<p>Wow thanks for the feed back guys.
Just for some clarification my friend never took the easy way out. We got to a public school and we only have like 7 Aps (three of which are language) and he has taken every AP possible. He was also the first sophomore in our high schools history to finish calc BC before junior year. The list goes on but after reading the comments posted above the major issue with his transcript I see is his GPA trend. He had a 4.0 freshmen year, a 3.9 sophomore year but his GPA crashed down to a 3.4/3.5 first semester junior year. As of now he is in the direction of getting straight As second semester but to just go ahead and assume that he will would be foolish. My major surprise was that even with these national awards and respectable numbers (GPA and SAT) colleges like UCLA and UCB were mid to high reaches. I had always assumed that for him as well as myself they would be matches or at most a high match. I guess I had just assumed that instate + above average stats = high acceptance rate.
Would you guys say that with perhaps a 2200 and a 3.8 his chances would increase significantly or would he be in the same boat as before</p>