DD is a senior this year, and we just had to hand in brag sheets for the guidance office.
Why are GC recommendations for college applications a thing? At my DD’s public high school, there are hundreds of students per GC. Her GC is new, so DD has only met her GC face-to-face once or twice. The GCs have parents and students fill out brag sheets – I assume so they can cherry pick facts to make it sound like they personally know the student?
These rec letters must be very cookie-cutter… Is there anything valuable about these that college admissions officers couldn’t get from other parts of the application? A transcript and school fact sheet tells them the student took the most rigorous course load possible of honors and AP classes – they don’t need a GC rec to tell them that.
This isn’t a rant about the usefulness of GCs; I’m sure most work hard and try to make a difference. It just seems silly to require a recommendation from someone who has no personal knowledge of the student.
Does anyone have any stories about the GC recommendation making a difference (positive or negative)? Did you do anything in particular beyond the brag sheets to try to make the GC recommendation more meaningful?
Just chiming in to say that I totally agree that for kids in large high schools where the GCs are spread thin, the GC recommendation letter is of little to no value. I really don’t know why schools still want them.
I think for the middle of the pack then the GC letter may not make a difference. But for a stand out student the GC can state how they have taken more APs than any other student in the history of the school, or that this student was on home bound instruction because of X medical condition or had parents who were in a contentious divorce sophomore year or was homeless freshman year and that is why grades suffered but now is doing well.
GC recommendation is really about the school profile. Also to comment on the rigor of your student’s course load. So its about the quality of the school and your student’s rank in the school.
@STEM2017 - I’ve seen this comment before, but I don’t understand the value of the recommendation giving this information. The transcript has rank, and our high school has a fact sheet that list all levels offered in every subject so colleges can determine rigor. I assumed all schools have a similar fact sheet but maybe not?
@bopper – you make a good point about exceptional students and exceptional situations. But doesn’t that in and of itself say this recommendation should be “exceptional” – meaning optional if the student has an exceptional situation that needs describing? Why force GCs to write 200 generic recommendations, when they could focus on the 10 exceptional situations?
My admittedly cynical take is that it provides an way for colleges to screen for the affluent likely to be able to pay full freight while sanctimoniously maintaining they admit based on merit. At private schools and publics in pricy neighborhoods, the counselors do make an effort to know all the kids and are going to write a personalized letter. At most of the rest the counselors are so busy dealing with kids who are flunking, behavioral problems, etc. that a good student is seen as a godsend, one who doesn’t take up their time. So the counselor rec is a way to tell the 2 groups of good kids apart.
This was in the US News College issue a few years back
@mikemac I agree that students from small, private schools with very active GCs that help each student individually with curriculum and college planning have an advantage with these recommendations.
My response to Mr. Ripple would be: “If the only reason to get to know my counselor is so they can write a better recommendation for me, and I’m an excellent student that is less in need of other counselor services, why is the college application process biased to force me to distract an already overloaded professional from servicing other students who are far more in need of their time? I believe the fact that I don’t know my counselor well, but yet I’m in the top 5% of my class, have excellent community involvement, and excellent teacher references is a sign that I can be independently successful and don’t need their services as much as many of my other classmates.”
If I were king, I’d make it so the counselor recommendation could be substituted with a community reference, such as an outside coach, a church leader/pastor, or a leader of a volunteer organization to which the student belongs that can attest to the nature of student’s heart and drive, rather than a non-informed GC rec.
Love that answer @mikemac! Also, my daughters’ school where D1 had 5 GC in 4 years due to turnover… Good school, lots of good, smart students, but GC overworked. D2 was luckier that GC was the same for the last 2 years and as it was a somewhat small school (less than 200 in senior class) she did know my daughter a bit. But when GC have a mix of 9, 10 11 and 12 graders to work with, they definitely don’t have lots of free time to meet everyone…
Apply to colleges that rack and stack (take kids only based on stats and meeting minimums,) and no, you don’t need a great GC letter.
But the point is to round out what an adcom learns about a student. Not a repeat of: she was in band, got x grades and ran the recycling club. Much like a teacher LoR (do you dispute the value of that?) Iit isn’t to confirm, Johnny was in my class, he did his homework and got an A. But what sort of kid is behind that. A good GC letter adds to the picture. That matters, in holistic.
It doesn’t screen for affluence, but for some impact. If you don’t know your counselor, he/she doesn’t know you.
@lookingforward, I think the teacher LoR - at least for kids in large public schools - is something completely different than the GC letter at such schools. The teacher has had daily interactions with the student, can observe their demeanor, behavior, contribution to class, etc. Not so the overworked GC who doesn’t have that time to spare. There is just no need - or opportunity - for that level of interaction.
ETA: Just did the math for my D’s school. It’s an excellent school, except when it comes to Guidance. There are 6 GCs for over 2600 kids. So that works out to one GC for about 430 kids.
@suzy100 I don’t disagree some GCs are overworked. But if a kid has some energy, the right sorts, the GC will take note. It happens. If a kid just wants a rack and stack, maybe the GC letter can be optional, that form just used to confirm no discipline issues. But all the Common App schools agree to be holistic.
To me, saying it’s a worthless effort is giving up before trying. I don’t think we can assume the val, the active kid with impact in his hs, is reduced to a bland form letter in every case. It isn’t so. I think maybe OP doesn’t expect much from that GC. Not that we can generalize. The GC letter is a professional educator speaking to the college, not some personal ref from the community.
The GC recommendation is going to be very important for my D because her school has a non-traditional curriculum including no APs. Fortunately students are assigned an Advisory with a teacher that meets 2x a week - class of 25 students and they have the same Advisory all 4 years and the Advisory teacher writes the GC rec not the College Counselor.
In some schools the guidance counselor recommendations can add to the application, but from what I understand the student is not penalized if the guidance counselor writes that he/she is responsible for example 200 students and does not know the applicant very well on a personal basis. In those cases it is especially helpful for students to get strong teacher LORs.
But even in the cases where the GCs are overwhelmed, the guidance counselor recommendation can be helpful to confirm that the applicant is a good citizen of the school (no disciplinary problems on record etc.), he/she can comment on the rigor of the applicant’s academic program, and can note any extenuating circumstance the student encountered such as scheduling conflicts, long illness etc.(in this case the student may need to take the initiative to meet and specifically discuss any of these issues with the guidance counselor prior to the letter being written)
@lookingforward – based on other threads it sounds like you work or have worked in higher ed, and even perhaps in admissions, so I always value your input when you chime in.
I do have to say your comment “if the kid has some energy … the GC will take note” hasn’t been our experience up to this point. DD has had three different counselors in three years, and even though she’s highly involved, and at the top of the class, each of those GC’s didn’t really know who she was until they had the end of year “let’s schedule for next year” meeting.
^ I will add that I just found out yesterday that the GCs at DD’s school schedule a one-on-one with each college-bound senior to get to know them better and review the brag sheet in an attempt to write a more meaningful LoR that doesn’t repeat things from other LoRs, so that’s a positive sign.