Guiding Son Through Search Process

Parents Forum
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<p>My son is a current hs junior. He has strong SAT (not unbelievable, 2030 overall), and 4.41 weighted gpa. I really would like to see him at a small LAC with great teacher interaction, discussion based classroom, and come out without being 50,000 in debt. We are very modest means family (60,000/yr), and he just is in a muddle right now. All of a sudden talking about Penn State (we do not live in PA, so I think out of the question, not enough aid). We've looked at 5 lacs in our home state, two are selective. How can I encourage him to see the benefit of a small setting, dynamic staff, individual attention, a LAC would offer? He always has enjoyed participating in class, he would flourish in a small setting environment, I am sure. Also, he is not a party animal and somewhat of a home body, and a place where staff/students would all know him would greatly help him, I think. I went to a large state univ, not one of my prof would have known me well enough to write a recommendation letter for him. I want more for him than I had. However, I don't want to push too hard. If he'd decides on one of the selective ones we've looked at, we've discussed ED to maximize possibility of getting in and and getting aid.</p>

<p>Any input? Just feeling pretty overwhelmed/frustrated/confused right now.</p>

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<p>I don’t know how successful you will be - so many of the LACs are small and rural - to me they seem too much like more high school. I wanted a small to medium univerisity and enjoyed having a mix of lecture classes and seminar style classes. I ended up in a tiny major where I pretty much got the LAC experience within a larger university.</p>

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<p>Mind telling me if you are parent or student, and where you attend? Thanks!</p>

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<p>

ED is risky if finaid is crucial. You should be very careful about making such commitment.</p>

<p>You should look into schools that meet 100% need, preferably without loans. Swarthmore could be a good choice in every way, though it is a reach for pretty much everyone.</p>

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<p>Ok, so maybe I don’t understand ED as well as I thought. I understood that if you did get accepted as ED BUT financial aid was insufficient that you could still decline? Is that incorrect?</p>

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<p>tuffy - you aren’t asking me are you? I think it’s pretty obvious I’m a parent. I attended Harvard. My oldest is also at a medium size university (Carnegie Mellon). My youngest is looking at largish LACs and small universities that aren’t out in the country.</p>

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<p>Yes, mathmom, I was talking to you, just wanted to clarify. We do not live in a major metro area, as you do, so rural isn’t necessarily a drawback. I’m looking for help from others that have already managed this process, just trying to gather data.</p>

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<p>Good question Tuffy. I think it will be difficult to talk him into a LAC if he is not at all inclined. But he may not really know what a LAC is like. Many kids assume it is just like high school when most students at LACs think that is not all the case. What you might want to do is try to stay fairly neutral yourself, but make sure he visits lots of larger schools, both urban and rural, and also some out of state LACs. He may reconsider a LAC once he experiences what the larger schools feel like. I know my D thought she could consider a medium sized university, but after a few visits, decided she would much prefer a smaller school. Sorry I cannot help you on the financial aid questions, but others certainly will.</p>

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<p>tuffy, my three oldest children have either graduated from or are currently attending LACs (Carleton, Grinnell and Beloit). Despite the small student body, none of my kids found their colleges to be, as mathmom put it, “like more high school.” Their experiences have been extraordinarily different from their high school years—absolutely worlds apart. Overnight visits were an important factor in directing them to their respective colleges. They began these visits in the spring of junior year. (We live in the Midwest, so it was affordable—no more than a half day’s drive.) All three of the colleges I mentioned agree to meet 100% of demonstrated financial need, and each made tuition affordable for us. My children have/will have debt upon graduation, but only about $20,000 (student loans), which we thought was reasonable. None of them applied ED.</p>

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<p>He should visit. It may be that when he visits one or two LACs they do feel like more high school and he hates them. If so, you’ll know they’re not for him.</p>

<p>If you think it would matter to your son’s decision, he might want to sit in on a small class typical of an LAC and a large lecture class typical of the first two years at a large state school. My son visited no large schools, but he enjoyed sitting in on classes at the small LACs he visited.</p>

<p>Small Midwest LACS give a lot of “merit aid.”</p>

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<p>tuffy,</p>

<p>My D is also a jr and going through the process. My S just finished his 1st year of college. Financial realities rear their ugly head at some point. The question is, should it be brought up during the search, before applying or after the acceptances are in? My approach has been to not limit the scope of the search for financial reasons, but to make clear to my child that financial considerations may knock a school out of the running at some point. My son eliminated his top school after being accepted because he was uncomfortable with the prospect of borrowing an estimated $30K over 4 years. Oddly enough he ended up at the school with the highest sticker price but because of great fin. aid he (and more importantly, his parents) did not need to borrow any money this year. Furthermore, he enjoyed his first year immensely and wonders what he ever saw in his former top choice to begin with. My D is looking at a number of expensive schools but most of them meet 100% of need. She has two dozen schools on her list and as she narrows down the list to 7 or 8, cost of attendance will have to receive some consideration. As parents we can help and support our kids but ultimately we can’t decide for them. It doesn’t sound like you’re pushing too hard despite your understandable anxiety. One of the great rewards in this whole college process is seeing your children make good choices or prove you wrong when they make choices that you would not have. I hope it works out well for him.</p>

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<p>When my daughter started her college search we took her to a largish research university (Syracuse and NYU), a mid-sized research university (U of Rochester and William & Mary) and a LAC (Wesleyan). Before she started visiting she decided she really didn’t want a large, graduate student-focused school. After visiting the mid-sized universities she came away wowed by the facilities but had nagging doubts as to how accessible professors and labs would be to undergrads in her first few years. After an extended visit to Wesleyan she decided on her own that LACs would be the focus. As parents who attended LACs for our undergrad education we were pleased, but the decision was solely hers. As it was she applied to 5 LACs (mostly in the 2-3,000 student range) where she felt comfortable and one small-medium sized research university.</p>

<p>Your son will get a sense as to what feels comfortable by visiting colleges. What may seem small and “high school-like” to an urban/suburban kid who goes to a high school of 2,500+ students may feel very different to a kid who goes to a small, 1,000-student high school in the exurbs.</p>

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<p>As other people have stated, the best thing you can do is visit schools of different sizes. When going to a large school make sure you have your DS look at one of the large lecture halls and ask about how freshman core classes are conducted (some schools are so large that they have to pipe the instructor in to multiple classrooms by video feed). I worked with our DDs to review what % of classes were >50 students from US News (that was of interest to them). That just highlights one of the major differences between a large school and a LAC.</p>

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<p>I think this is too abstract for many students…I second the notion of visiting schools of different sizes and types. At first, those schools don’t have to be on any one’s shortlist. Just pick some schools that are nearby: large, medium, small, urban, rural and go on tours.</p>

<p>Or, as our son said when I first asked him what kind of school he wanted, “How should I know?” We were at the small, nearby LAC the next week and the state school a few weeks after that!</p>

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<p>“I understood that if you did get accepted as ED BUT financial aid was insufficient that you could still decline? Is that incorrect?”</p>

<p>That is correct for schools that use the Common App; there is no penalty for declining ED if the FA offered is insufficient.</p>

<p>However, applying ED needing FA should be done only if there is that one dream school he wants to attend, and the family will do whatever it can to find a way if there is any way possible to make it work. Otherwise you should be comparing FA offers at RD time from a variety of schools he likes.</p>

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<p>I definetly think first you need to understand the FA process. At 60K, you are most likely looking at an EFC of 10K to 12K for Family Contribution. That is not your child’s contribution, but your contribution. So say the college is 50,000 per year and your EFC is about 10K. Your child would be offered about $2500 in work-study (work and earn money), $2000 in perkins loans and $3500 in Stafford Loans and then you will contribute $10,000 so the college will (if it is a 100% need college) grant you $32,000. If the college is not a 100% need college, it can grant you whatever it wishes. So most likely, whereever you go, you’ll be in debt for about $40,000 after the four years and your child will also be in debt. Go to the FAFSA Website and esitmate your EFC - you can do that now and that will help you out greatly. Remember though, at $60,000 per year, you will most likely have an EFC and your child will also have to have loans.</p>

<p>And there are no guarantees on Financial Aid for Early Decision Applicants.</p>

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<p>I will leave others to comment upon the financial side of things. Obviously it is key that both parent and student work within the parameters of financial feasibility (whether that means merit aid, need-based aid, loans, sticking with in-state publics, etc…). There are certainly schools ranging from small LAC’s to mega-universities that could be found in the full spectrum of expense categories.</p>

<p>I would like to comment upon your statement that “you’d like to see him at a small LAC.” Certainly you know your son best, and it is our job as parents to help steer our kids through this process taking into account all the things we know about him or her. It is also important, however, to remember to listen to what he says about where he could see himself. It is early in the process so he really may not know yet. Help point things out, ask questions, visit various sized campuses - but I encourage you and him to keep an open mind about what might be the best fit. I say this as the parent of a son who is planning to attend U of Wisconsin-Madison (yes, huge) this fall. My husband and I both went to smaller schools (Dickinson and William and Mary) and had fantastic experiences. My early bias going into DS1’s search was towards a small-medium institution for many of the reasons you listed. We began the search by looking at some smaller and larger schools, urban and rural, public and private. Basically just “tried on” some various styles. Again, I sort of liked the smaller to medium-sized places for him. However, he felt differently. He really gravitated towards the larger universities, specifically those set within great college towns. He loved the vibe, multitude of academic possibilities, tons of different clubs and intramurals he could try, the number of restaurants and music venues, the chance to cheer for a big sports team, etc… He is excited by the opportunity to “spread his wings” and expand his concept of himself and who he might be (he wouldn’t say it those words :wink: ), if that makes sense. It is exciting to watch him choose for himself. And, despite still having some reservations about the size, lack of personal attention, access to services, and need to work within a large bureaucracy, we believe he has made a great choice. We are coaching him to personalize the school for himself - approach profs and TA’s, get involved in research or a special project, attend study sessions, go to the tutoring center, make connections through clubs, etc… - but are thrilled.</p>

<p>BTW, our DS2 is very likely to choose a small LAC. There is no one right choice or only one good type of school. If, as you say, your son will really be better off at a small school, he will probably figure that out after a few visits to schools of both sizes. </p>

<p>Good luck. It is a journey, but one through which you will both learn and grow. Almost all kids seem to wind up at a place that is perfect for them.</p>

<p>Edit: Sorry for some repetitive comments - I took so darn long to write, others beat me to the punch. :-)</p>

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<p>This is a candidate whose scores I would really try to get higher. If he can be comfortably be in range for the top LAC’s and others that offer no loans and full aid to families making under $60K, he’ll be in good shape for ED or RD. Maybe try the ACT.</p>

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<p>Tuffy, your thoughts on what is best for your son sound alot like what I think is best for my DD1. We have looked at a range of schools sizes from U of IL to Oberlin. My DH and I feel our daughter, who has dreams of med school, would really do best at a smaller college where she could get to know her profs well, be able to do research and have a small class experience. Well, DD1 has different ideas. The LACs that we have seen have been way to rural for her and smaller than her current high school. While she hated the giant size of U of I and will not even consider applying, she thinks she needs a good college town with the school she chooses. She doesnt want to go somewhere too many “locals” go. Wants college not to be a copy of her high school experience. So far, she has liked Case of the schools we visited but still is interested in Emory, Tulane, Rice and W&M. Only time and Merit aid will tell where she will end up! In the end, I thinks these kids today have so many choices they tend to get overwhelmed. I believe most kids can find a place and thrive almost anywhere if they put their mind to it. We have tried to instill this in our DD1 so she knows that there isnt just one right choice. Good luck.</p>

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<p>tuffy the first thing I did was take my son to a small college out in the woods. It has a great education program, but S2 was definite about not wanting anything like that. Personally, I think I could have enjoyed a few years in the country, I spent a couple of very happy childhood years in the middle of nowhere in Africa, but at the time I was convinced I wanted a big city. At anyrate, at this point I think it’s a good idea to take your child to a mix of schools. You may even want to keep some variety on the final list too, as students change between October and April.</p>