H.S. to Med. School Guides

Pre-Med & Medical School Multiple Degree Programs
1

<p>This thread is to provide a list of resources on exploring combined BS/MD programs for high school students. I'll start off but for this to be effective, others should add their favorite research sources:</p>

<p>1) Medical School Admission Requirements (MSAR), put out by the Association of American Medical colleges (AAMC). Chapter 10, "Information on Combined College/M.D. Programs for High School Students".</p>

<p>2) "From High School to Med. School: The definitive guide to accelerated medical programs", by Jason Yanofski and Ashish Raju.</p>

2

<p>3) Medical School from High School: The College Applicant’s Guide to Medical School Early Admission Programs by A.M. Ilyas MD</p>

<p>4) The High School Doctor: The Underground Roadmap to 6, 7, and 8 year Accelerated/Combined Medical Programs (BA/MD) in the United States by Nagendra Sai Koneru, Omar Wang, and Vineet Arora</p>

3

<p>5) “2004’s Definitive Guide to Combined Medical Programs”, by Neil Roy and Manosh Chakravorty</p>

4

<p>D. is in combined program. We did not use mentioned resources. Actually everybody’s situation is so uniques, I believe that approach to be effective, needs to be very personal taking into account your own situation instead of others. In addition, AAMC list of programs is not up to date. The competition is increasing every year. What has worked for applicants in a past, might not work currently. We also discovered that having connections sometime overwrites other stats and qualifications. D. did not have any, but some kids with MD parent(s), have. Also, number of spots have been dropping since some programs are cancelled becuase of latest economic developments. Situation is not stable, advises from the books migh be outdated. Just a warning to be more self-relient, do your own research… Good luck to everybody, you will need ton of it, most programs are tougher to get in than Ivy’s.</p>

5

<p>[Med</a> School for Dummies](<a href=“http://medschoolfordummies.blogspot.com%5DMed”>http://medschoolfordummies.blogspot.com)</p>

<p>This focuses on the traditional route. If you go all the way back to post one, it answers questions ranging from college choice to interview tips.</p>

6

<p>MiamiDAP, as usual, giving advice esp. about his “D”, when it’s not asked for. There are MANY different ways to find information. Just bc you and your “D” didn’t use it, doesn’t mean it’s not a valid one. In fact, it’s worse when you don’t have a variety of resources, as then you are not aware of the many programs there are and only apply to 1 or 2 programs which end up being very bad. There are tons of stories on CC of people who did that.</p>

<p>“most programs are tougher to get in than Ivy’s.” — That’s bc unlike normal college admissions, there is a huge number of people applying for very very few spots overall. You are comparing apples to oranges.</p>

<p>Just for context, MiamiDAP’s daughter, or I’m sorry “D”, is looking to apply out of University of Cincinnati’s medical school to another, yet then has the nerve to post that there is no bad medical schools. Seriously MiamiDAP, your hypocrisy is showing.</p>

7

<p>If you can find it check out the Match List for University of Cincinnati’s medical school. Really bad.</p>

8

<p>University of Cincinnati’s medical school’s match lists:</p>

<p>2003 - <a href=“https://comdo-wcnlb.uc.edu/PDFDocuments/StudentAffairs/MatchDay/matchday2003alpha.pdf[/url]”>https://comdo-wcnlb.uc.edu/PDFDocuments/StudentAffairs/MatchDay/matchday2003alpha.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>2004 - <a href=“https://comdo-wcnlb.uc.edu/PDFDocuments/StudentAffairs/MatchDay/matchday2004alpha.pdf[/url]”>https://comdo-wcnlb.uc.edu/PDFDocuments/StudentAffairs/MatchDay/matchday2004alpha.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>2005 - <a href=“https://comdo-wcnlb.uc.edu/PDFDocuments/StudentAffairs/MatchDay/matchday2005alpha.pdf[/url]”>https://comdo-wcnlb.uc.edu/PDFDocuments/StudentAffairs/MatchDay/matchday2005alpha.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>2006 - <a href=“https://comdo-wcnlb.uc.edu/PDFDocuments/StudentAffairs/MatchDay/matchday2006alpha.pdf[/url]”>https://comdo-wcnlb.uc.edu/PDFDocuments/StudentAffairs/MatchDay/matchday2006alpha.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>2007 - <a href=“https://comdo-wcnlb.uc.edu/PDFDocuments/StudentAffairs/MatchDay/matchday2007alpha.pdf[/url]”>https://comdo-wcnlb.uc.edu/PDFDocuments/StudentAffairs/MatchDay/matchday2007alpha.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>2008 - <a href=“https://comdo-wcnlb.uc.edu/PDFDocuments/StudentAffairs/MatchDay/matchday2008alpha.pdf[/url]”>https://comdo-wcnlb.uc.edu/PDFDocuments/StudentAffairs/MatchDay/matchday2008alpha.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>2009 - <a href=“https://comdo-wcnlb.uc.edu/PDFDocuments/StudentAffairs/MatchDay/matchday2009alpha.pdf[/url]”>https://comdo-wcnlb.uc.edu/PDFDocuments/StudentAffairs/MatchDay/matchday2009alpha.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I would beware to take advice from MiamiDAP considering he/she confuses “overwrites” with “overrides” and “advice” with “advises” and doesn’t know that the plural of Ivy is Ivies.</p>

<p>MiamiDAP says, “Also, number of spots have been dropping since some programs are cancelled becuase of latest economic developments.” No, actually, programs that cancel it are more due to board scores and class grades being lower in the combined degree group than the premed 4+4 group. That’s why places like U of Michigan canceled theirs. It’s not the economy as you’re charged for undergrad at the same rate as other undergrads.</p>

<p>Then he/she has the nerve to say, “most programs are tougher to get in than Ivy’s” (no apostrophe needed), as his/her “D” is in a combined BA/MD program and not one with a great medical school, when undergraduate admissions for Ivy Leagues and admissions for combined Bachelor/MD programs are not comparable at all.</p>

9

<p>Thank you MD2B2012 for finding the lists!</p>

<p>It gets annoying when MiamiDAP gives advice on applying when her D applied to so few programs. Saying the same thing again and again does not make it truer. The HS to Med school books give a lot of good info. Her comments about connections is about her paranoia. Admission to college & grad school has gotten more competitive, not only med programs. Agree with you MD2B2012 about reasons programs are canceled. Some current programs are raising required MCAT scores and adding requirements to make sure students are ready for med school.</p>

10

<p>MD2B2012…chill out, this thread wasn’t started to bash on MiamiDAP. Just cuz MiamiDAP doesn’t speak in pristine perfect English and doesn’t check her grammar on forums doesn’t mean a whole lot.
As for “most programs are tougher to get into than Ivies”…some programs are tougher to get into many Ivies…some aren’t. Getting into Harvard is harder than getting into Drexel bs/md but getting into Northwestern’s HPME is much harder than getting into Cornell. </p>

<p>As for resources, “The Medical School Interview” by Jeremiah Fleenor, the AAMC book, and Medical School from High School (A.M. Ilyas) are the books I had.</p>

11

<p>These programs are looking for mature people. Growing up is the best tactic for you at this point, the faster the better. Good luck!</p>

12

<p>In johnstoops reply; {As for “most programs are tougher to get into than Ivies”…some programs are tougher to get into many Ivies…some aren’t. Getting into Harvard is harder than getting into Drexel bs/md but getting into Northwestern’s HPME is much harder than getting into Cornell.} </p>

<p>So true John. The Ivies vs. combo BS/MD programs is a choice that can get somewhat complicated. Which Ivy vs. which combo is one big factor. Knowing yourself is another. I personally know of people who went to an Ivy and got GPAs in the 3.3 range and didn’t get into med school (some of them went to the effort of improving their resumes, reapplying a year or more later and getting in while others went into something else). Perhaps those getting a 3.3 would have gotten a 3.5 or 3.6 in a less competive school and gotten in? I do know at least one person who got into an Ivy and a good combo program and chose the combo program. This person did great in undergrad school [better than they did in HS], aced the MCAT and applied out to top tier med schools. So I think that which combo you select could be important and to be allowed to apply out without losing your combo program med school seat is a really big plus. </p>

<p>Getting back to my statement about knowing yourself. Getting into an Ivy by the skin of your teeth so to speak could be risky to eventually doing well enough to get into med school. In that case choosing to go into a combo program could be a great idea. On the other hand there are those who are high enough up academically that they could both go to an Ivy [if that’s what they really want] and be reasonably assured that they’ll also make it into med school.</p>

13

<p>Johnstoops, I don’t think you’re understanding why I am criticizing MiamiDAP.</p>

<p>First off this thread by BERN1943 was created to help high schoolers find any H.S. to Med School guides that may be out there for those who are thinking about going to medical school unconventionally through a Bachelor/MD program.</p>

<p>Since there are resources that are scattered everywhere it’s obviously best if they are all in one place whether it’s Chapter 10 of the MSAR put out by the AAMC, googling to find lists of Bachelor/MD programs, or books that give listings and ideas on how to make your application appealing to the admissions committee, as well as CC. Was it really necessary for MiamiDAP to say, “We did not use mentioned resources”? Good for him if he didn’t use it, but OTHER people can use them if they so wish to find out more information for themselves. As always then he has to relate it back to his “D”.</p>

<p>Also a lot of the information that MiamiDAP gives is just plain wrong.</p>

<p>“What has worked for applicants in a past, might not work currently.” ---- How does he know that personally? The application form doesn’t even change that much if at all.</p>

<p>“We also discovered that having connections sometime overwrites other stats and qualifications. D. did not have any, but some kids with MD parent(s), have.” — Once again as oreo45 said, it sounds like just mere paranoia if not sour grapes. Parents can overexaggerate and boast as well. Having an MD parent doesn’t guarantee anything nor does knowing faculty. This isn’t undergraduate admissions. They want students who they know can complete both the BA/BS and MD.</p>

<p>“Also, number of spots have been dropping since some programs are cancelled becuase of latest economic developments.” – this is a lie too, as how would a BA/MD program be more expensive from the school’s standpoint? In general, you pay undergrad tuition for the undergrad part and medical school tuition for the medical school part. The only difference is psychologic comfort for the student. The truth is the reason why many of these programs are discontinued are bc students in the program end up not doing as well as their 4+4 counterparts in classes or on boards and end up LEAVING the program - which is actually what costs the school in lost revenue. That’s the real answer - the economy has NOTHING to do with it.</p>

<p>Some Bachelor/MD programs are great, some are definitely not so great, that’s why people ask which ones are good and which ones are bad. All people can offer are their personal experiences. Yet when someone asks on a thread which are bad medical schools, MiamiDAP says NONE of the medical schools are bad. The reasons CCers want to know whether a medical school is bad or not from other CCers and those in it, is to decide for themselves whether to enter the combined early program early on and commit from an early starting point to a medical school or do the 4+4 route and see what they are able to get. Most of the people who apply for combined programs are high achievers with high standardized exam scores, GPA, rank, spectacular CVs and thus would be able to get into top-notch med schools anyways. In many of these programs, once you enter and go through a couple years, it’s very difficult to get out later and enter the normal route again without having to redo requirements.</p>

<p>To say as if somehow all medical schools in the U.S. are not bad is a lie, as many CCers who are ACTUALLY in these programs have attested to - many of them regretted entering their specific program and wishing they had done the 4+4 route. Someone shouldn’t end up settling for a school relying on advice from MiamiDAP that “there are no bad medical schools” - as that is false. What’s worse is he repeats the same misinformation again and again, which doesn’t make it true.</p>

<p>Yet, at the same time he’s saying that there are no bad medical schools, his “D” is wanting to apply out of her own medical school to another (she’s at UCinncinati - and not even a great medical school at that) - so you don’t think someone would take his advice should probably take it with a huge grain of salt?</p>

14

<p>They’re good books and all, but where can you find them? I can’t seem to find the guides anywhere.</p>

15

<p>bluewind, try Amazon. </p>

<p>MD2B2012- thank you for putting all that on the table.</p>

<p>I believe that the reason programs are canceled is because the med schools find they can get better quality candidates from the 4+4 applicant pool. Also, programs can be a huge hassle to run.</p>

<p>The bs/md applicants are generally high achievers who will do well anyway. Some of the lower level med schools/programs can get these top students by having a guaranteed med program, med schools that would not likely attract such high caliber in the 4+4. </p>

<p>It is still difficult to get in to a US medical school these days for most 4+4 people, especially if they really don’t want to go outside of the states and deal with being an FMG. That is where ‘any med school in the US is good’ comes from. For top HS bs/md applicants this is unlikely to be their result were they to do 4+4. </p>

<p>Some believe the lower tier med schools take advantage of the insecurity that top bs/md applicants have in wanting a guaranteed spot in med school. It is to their advantage to have these programs. Most top med schools attract plenty of top applicants in the 4+4 so they do not need to attract them this way. </p>

<p>There are top med school bs/md programs, so all programs are not equal. Always check the match list for a medical school you are considering to see if graduates get the top residency programs or even into the current competitive fields like derm, radiology,optho and a few others.</p>

<p>It is difficult to get into most bs/md programs even if you are a top candidate and the programs/med schools aren’t. Even programs with high MCAT and GPA reqs are extemely competitive. Keep the cost in mind as some OOS med schools can charge you ~$55-60k per year.</p>

16

<p>If you had to get only one, which one should you get?
(Sorry for my multiple questions.)</p>