<p>
[quote]
If I was a palestinian I would be ****ed too if one day the UN kicked me off of my land and gave it to foreigners.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The land partitioned by the UN to become the nation of Israel was a majority Jewish. Not a single Muslim was kicked out.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Sheesh, Zionists are no better than Hamas.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>In what way?</p>
<p>It's ridiculous and bigoted to even think of comparing the two. How about actually engaging in a debate instead of throwing out childish lies?</p>
<p>You claimed that ALL Muslims are Anti-Zionists.</p>
<p>There are Arab Muslim, Euopean Muslims, Indian Muslims, Chinese Muslims, Indonesian Muslims, African Muslims, American muslims etc etc. And you claimed that all of them are anti-Zionist. At least my statement is more of a fact than yours. Are you mad at the rising conversion rate to Islam by Jews? LOL.</p>
<p>The views expressed by the Hamas-sympathizers in this thread are standard examples of individuals who have no understanding of morality. The idea that the terrorist is morally comparable to the anti-terrorist is a complete logical fallacy.</p>
<p>Give them a chance, and we'll see how it plays out.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You claimed that ALL Muslims are Anti-Zionists.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No, I didn't--look back at the thread. </p>
<p>A vast majority of Muslims are Anti-Zionists, however.</p>
<p>First off, I am Muslim, and I can tell you that the vast majority of Muslims are not anti-zionist. Terrorists only make up an extremely small part of the Muslim world and its ridiculous that you would make a statement like that. Second, if Hamas is a terrorist organization then so is the government of Israel. Both groups have committed hundreds of terrible acts against each other, and innocent men, women and children have died on both sides, moreso on the Palestinian side. Hamas only won because the previous party was corrupt and didnt do any thing to help the people, while Hamas built orphanages and hospitals. I'm not supporting Hamas, but saying they are a "terrorist" group is hypocritical when compared to Israel. And Israel has nothing to fear from Iran, even if they build nuclear weapons they will never use them.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Hamas only won because the previous party was corrupt and didnt do any thing to help the people, while Hamas built orphanages and hospitals. I'm not supporting Hamas, but saying they are a "terrorist" group is hypocritical when compared to Israel. And Israel has nothing to fear from Iran, even if they build nuclear weapons they will never use them.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No one saw Hamas's win coming. Even Hamas had no idea, their organization would come to win. A worst scenario had been dictated that Hamas would be given enough votes that a coalition would be formed. </p>
<p>guguru, you're absolutely correct that both sides are not correct in either matter. However, which side has tried more for the peace process? Isreal gave up the Gaza? over this summer, so I'd say they've given it a fair shot. It doesn't matter what Hamas makes, you can't help but argue that it is a terrorist group. They openly advocate suicide bombings against Isreal. </p>
<p>Isreal has nothing to fear from Iran, as of today. However, I honestly would never trust Iran's leader with nukes for whatever purpose. The only reason Isreal has not brought Iran to news as much is because the timespan still gives them relatively 4+ years until Iran posseses the capability for nuclear weapons. Palestian elections was probably more important in Isreal than Isreal's politics were. </p>
<p>With Sharon's political power clouded and him out for an indefinite amount of this, this appears to be a dark year for Isreal.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Second, if Hamas is a terrorist organization then so is the government of Israel.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No. </p>
<p>"Terrorism" implies the targeting of innocents. Hamas targets innocents. Israel does not. If anyone is to blame for the death of Palestinians, it is groups like Hamas who stick women and children in front of them as human shields. </p>
<p>Hamas is a group of terrorist thugs. Israelis defend themselves against terrorism.</p>
<p>Terrorism implicts the usage of certain ways to create others to subjectify themselves to other opinions or to change theirs. </p>
<p>Isreal does do this. Everytime they roll in Palestian with a tank, a copter, and 50 thousand rounds of ammo, they're creating the same shock that they faced from a suicide bomber.</p>
<p>However, I argue for Isreal's side because they never perform these acts unless they have just affected by suicide bombers.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Terrorism implicts the usage of certain ways to create others to subjectify themselves to other opinions or to change theirs.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So televised political ads are terrorism? Op-eds in the newspaper are terrorism? Passing out literature is terrorism?</p>
<p>"Terrorism" implies the targeting of innocents. Hamas targets innocents. Israel does not. </p>
<p>I agree with Tuftsplease on this. Terrorism is striking terror into the hearts of innocent civilians. Both sides strike fear into innocent civilians. Israel may not state out loud that it targets civilians, but certainly does not stop its soldiers from targeting civilians and targeting people who throw stones at them. Can you give sources for ur statement that Hamas uses human shields? Hamas "terrorists" use suicide bombings because of the fact that they have been oppressed for all of thier life; and they are probably sick of it and they really don't have much choice. Suicide bombings are political statements, you don't hafta be the brightest bulb in the wall to see that bombers are obviously ****ed off enough to blow themselves up and that theyre doing it for a reason. But i do agree that Israel has tried more for peace, but then again they started the problem.</p>
<p>Hey,</p>
<p>Wolf Blitzer interviewed the Co-founder of Hamas, Mahmoud Al-Zahar today. I pasted the link to the transcript. You ought to read the whole interview. It is about 3/4ths down the page. </p>
<p>Please read it all. </p>
<p>I found this to be very interesting and I never knew about this but apparently it is true....</p>
<p>Lastly, I think -- and also at the same time, ask the Israeli about what is the meaning of the two blue lines in their flag. What is the meaning of land of Israel in their concept?</p>
<p>BLITZER: The two blue lines on the Israeli flag that are on top of the Star of David, is that what you're talking about? </p>
<p>AL-ZAHAR: They are indicating -- they are saying that frankly -- it is indicating the River Nile and Euphrates (inaudible). On one coin, the gold shekel, there was -- it was a map, including Palestine, Sinai, Syria, Jordan and part of Saudi Arabia. So they are not denying that. Ask them about this question...</p>
<p>(CROSSTALK)</p>
<p>BLITZER: Well, let's just be clear about this. What you're saying is that Israel wants to establish a state between the Nile and the Euphrates, is that what you're saying?</p>
<p>AL-ZAHAR: I'm sorry, I'm not understanding your question.</p>
<p>BLITZER: Are you saying that Israel hopes to establish a state between the Nile River in Egypt and the Euphrates River in Iraq?</p>
<p>AL-ZAHAR: Yes. It is written in their Bibles. They are even -- it is written in the Knesset. That is the meaning of the David Star that was said (ph) as the land of Israel. This is the historical land of Israel.</p>
<p>I used to be left-wing on this issue until I realized that the Palestinians are animals. Israel gives them legitimate political representation--both in allowing them to elect their own leaders as well as having Arabs in the Knesset--and still the Palestinians **** themselves up so much that they have to resort to suicide attacks on innocent civilians.</p>
<p>Democracy just doesn't work with Arabs--don't blame Israel for exacerbating the squalid quality of life in Gaza and the West Bank. If you look at every other Middle-Eastern country, it's clear that Arabs do not understand democracy.</p>
<p>This is not to say that there aren't many Palestinians willing to work with Israel to achieve a peaceful co-existence. But their voices are drowned out by calls of Zionist annihilation and bomb blasts.</p>
<p>What do you know about democracy you biased Zionist!!! Israel wields all political control in the region and suppresses the rights and liberties of the Palestinians. Palestinians resort to suicide attacks because they have no other means of defense against the superior Israeli military. Calling the Palestinians "animals" is what is currently ailing Israle and ultimately the stability of the Mideast right now. Until Israel swallows its pride and tries to actually negotiate peace and make concessions like Prime Minister Rabin once tried to do, innocents on both sides will continue to die in this endless tirade of carnage.</p>
<p>Again, </p>
<p>I do not want my post to get lost. Before commenting any further on the issue you should read the interview with the co-founder of Hamas.
Strongly urge it.</p>
<p>Before I end.... Seriously do you really think Hamas has the capability of destroying Israel???????? When Israel has its military trained and weapons and artilery supplied by the strongest army in the world, the United States. Have you never paid attention to the news that when there is a suicide bombing Israel goes in and destroys towns and villages with their F-16!!! Fighter Jets!!! Do you not listen or are you heedless of the fact that the Israeli army is one of the strongest in the world and up against a government that is unarmed and only means of security is their faith. Do you not know that Israel is heavily fortifying itself with its 14-feet walls that are deeply rooted into Palestinian territory? </p>
<p>The nonsense that is floating around with Hamas calling for the destruction of Palestine and that the United States will not support them or will the Israelis talk to Hamas because they want them destroyed is bogus . Trying to make yourself look like the oppressed when you are actually the oppressor is a sign of cowardness. The Jews have always been like that and it is repeated in History, with the killings of many of their Prophets and with the call to end the life of the beloved Jesus the son of Mariam.</p>
<p>Let's get real people. Step into reality. Anyway, Read the transcript. Mahmoud Al-Zahar states a lot of important insightful information about Israel and what not. Do read the transcript as it was very beneficial to read, knowledge-wise.</p>
<p>"Israel wields all political control in the region and suppresses the rights and liberties of the Palestinians. Palestinians resort to suicide attacks because they have no other means of defense against the superior Israeli military. "</p>
<p>Palestinians are allowed to run for Parliament. There are Arab and Muslim members in the Israeli parliament. Not only that, but Palestinians have much autonomy in the West Bank and Gaza. How is this political oppression?</p>
<p>"Have you never paid attention to the news that when there is a suicide bombing Israel goes in and destroys towns and villages with their F-16!!! Fighter Jets!!!"</p>
<p>If "targeting smart bombing" is analogous to "destroy[ing] towns and villages."</p>
<p>But I bet you have no problem when the U.S. sends tomahawks after bin Laden.</p>
<p>Again, clearly Israel is not to blame--look at Libya, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, heck even Indonesia. Jordan and Egypt are the best of the bunch, and they're still not paradise. Arabs and Muslims simply cannot run a civilized, first-world country. Israel is at the forefront of technological advancement, and they have to deal with half the populace wanting the country destroyed.</p>
<p>Just for the record, I'm not a Zionist.</p>
<p>jpps: Read everything that was written and understand. You know it is the truth and do not try to beat around the bush. </p>
<p>Anybody with any knowledge and sense of dignity can clearly see the truth here and recognize it without any blinds.</p>
<p>Again, the israeli army is one of the strongest military in the world and it is up against an unarmed group of people. Now who do you think has the upper hand. If a brother had a fight with his younger brother even though the younger brother might be the one who ignited the fight who would get in trouble by the parents? Who has the upper hand? The older brother. Why? Because he is stronger and can use his brain to stop the fight. This same analogy can be applied to Israel. Hamas does not have an upper hand in any situation and thus you can't attribute that Hamas is willing to destroy Israel when clearly it cannot. </p>
<p>Again, the nonsense that is floating around with Hamas calling for the destruction of Palestine and that the United States will not support them or will the Israelis talk to Hamas because they want them destroyed is bogus . Trying to make yourself look like the oppressed when you are actually the oppressor is a sign of cowardness. {{{!!!!The Jews have always been like that and it is repeated in History, with the killings of many of their Prophets and with the call to end the life of the beloved Jesus the son of Mariam!!!!!}}}</p>
<p>Let's get real people. Step into reality. Anyway, Read the transcript. Mahmoud Al-Zahar states a lot of important insightful information about Israel and what not. Do read the transcript as it was very beneficial to read, knowledge-wise.</p>
<hr>
<hr>
<p>A question for you: What do the Blue Stripes on the Israeli flag mean above and below the star of David?</p>
<p>The stripes are meant to equate the flag with a tallit (prayer shawl).</p>
<p>I'd love to read the interview, if you would provide a working link...</p>
<p>I'm seeing Muslims saying Islam is not against Judaism and many non Muslims saying the opposite, who to believe? I do know that many Muslims on these boards seem to be quite liberal and moderate in their views but I feel that Islam in its core is very anti-Zionist and against any other religion as well but that Muslims today are trying to change that and make it a much more tolerant religion, I could be wrong though, no need to start a flame war.</p>
<p>What is really the correct viewpoint, that the poor Palestinains are being oppressed by the bully Israel and so they are fighting for their freedom or that the Palestinains are a bunch of terrorists using suicide bombers to kill innocent Israelis??</p>