@4junior, those are your personal observations regarding the two schools - they are not shared by the masses as everyone agrees that all of the top-20 LAC’s are great schools! Frankly, all of the top-40 are great!
The accepted student profiles at Hamilton and Vassar are exactly the same, as they are at Wesleyan as well - that said the vibes are different, which is where fit comes into play as it should.
Best wishes and best of luck to your DD as its a challenging landscape for prospective students, and their parents, today!
It may be driven by the efficient allocation of housing, rather than a shortage in general. (Enrolled students may be more likely to study abroad during the spring semester, etc.)
@4junior Just a thought - can you DD go to see her counselor on Monday and see if it’s too late for her Vassar app to be moved from RD to ED2, given the Hamilton bait and switch element you are describing?
ETA not sure if she wants Middlebury or Vassar - I think there are 2 posters whose DC applied ED to Hamilton, may be confusing the 2 of you.
@GnocchiB I have emailed him and asked for his advice. But the hard part is at this point she’s really really excited about the prospect of Hamilton, the school she chose to Ed2. And while there is a chance she will be offered a Jan admit there is a greater chance she will be offered a Sept admit (and and even greater chance she will be offered no admit!!!)
@4junior I appreciate your frustration/anger/concern over the Jan thing at Hamilton. The only reason we knew about the Jan admit was because a friend of my son’s was a Hamilton Jan a few years ago. Hamilton notified ED1 applicants on Dec. 14th at 8:00 pm. When my son opened the email on his phone, he only read the first line which said something to the effect: “we’re thrilled to offer you a place in the class of 2022…” he stopped reading. He was so happy he started crying. I asked to see his phone. I continued reading…class of 2022 with a start date of January, 2019. I thought, oh no. So I said, you’re a January admit. He asked to see his phone and his face dropped. He was so upset. He now has the option to apply to other colleges (he has applied to three) and can decide down the road. I didn’t realize the Hamilton program was 45 minutes outside of London. I do know that they have to get themselves to campus and it can take up to 40 minutes on a bus, so that does make sense. Yes, the whole cooking thing can be a concern as well. London is not a cheap place to live for 3 1/2 month, either. You’re not a snob. You know your daughter very well. When does Hamilton notify ED2 applicants?
@Chembiodad They do profile quite similarly with the numbers you post. Both will provide an exceptional education. But it really is how you look at the numbers. While mid 50 ranges are close, if you look at the % of SAT scorers above 700 on each section, you do see Vassar 7-11 % points ahead. My naviance which is limited, shows similar accepted scores, but gpa much higher for Vassar. Now that’s one school’s data point, so may or may not be meaningful. But the point is a lot of times you can find numbers to support what you are looking to support. Full disclosure, my kid will likely apply to H but not V next year.
@wisteria, not certain if you are adding Old SAT above 700 with New SAT above 700 with ACT above 31 to reach that conclusion, but regardless I just don’t think its material when evaluating any of the schools at this level - IMHO. Yes, very school’s Naviance is different as Student-athletes play a big role in our DD’s HS. Both are really great schools and anyone should be proud to be accepted to either.
^^ I didn’t add anything. I took the percentages from the 2016-2017 common data sets.
For Reading section % over 700 at Vassar 63%, at Hamilton 52% Math Vassar 55% Hamilton 48%
@wisteria, hard to tie as you would also need to wrap in the ACT above 31. While the CDS only breaks at 30, with Hamilton having 90% above 30 and Vassar having 86% that accounts for some of the delta - regardless its too close for me to worry about a margin of error delta.
Both are really great schools, as are another 20-30 other LAC’s (at least!), and anyone should be proud to be accepted to any of them.
Good luck to your kid in next year’s admission cycle! Unfortunately, it will probably be an even higher bar again…
Nothing faux about it and no snarkiness intended - unfortunately that seems to run through some CC threads which is sad as this isn’t a sport.
The reality is that admittance at every highly selective school is much harder than just 6-8 years ago as at least 50% from then wouldn’t be admitted today - WOW!
We also have another DD who will be applying as part of the Class of 2027 - I can’t fathom how difficult the same schools will be by then.
The Spectator article (reply #35) would benefit from greater attention to editing (discrepancies in figures; all applicants in this context would be “students”; semicolons and colons serve different purposes; etc.).
After a nights sleep and a whole lot of yoga I have a clearer head on all this. I apologize to this community for the snarky tone of some of my comments and the venting - but I do appreciate all of your support!
I guess the Jan thing is a possibility that we just have to deal with if it comes up. After doing my utmost to qualify schools using all the net price calculators we only applied to those we could afford -
but did not factor in a non-funded Jan overseas option. If D is admitted as a Jan it will be some kind of cruelty to have to tell that she has a choice between taking classes at a local college (having zero freshman first semester “College” experience or bonding with her classmates) and moving on to a different school. I do wonder if this has ever come up before with students admitted to the Jan program and how parents and the school handled it. It seems like a dark hole in the way the program is structured, balancing need-blind admissions and choosing students for this program. It’s not always easy to spot a FA candidate as there are many that do not fit the stereotype.
@merc81 Yes, and I feel they buried the lead in the article. 10% overall uptick in applicants is nice but not extraordinary in these times. 63% uptick in ED1 apps is kind of breathtaking and they did not even speak to that.
@junior, it was an article written by a student in the campus newspaper - not a press release from the adcoms.
Just like a Gap Semester Admit to Middlebury who typically engage in an internship or a non-profit experience, a Hamilton student can do that as well. Not certain how graduation would be impacted at Hamilton, but some students do take 5 classes per semester versus 4 (although it’s rare) so one could graduate with Fall Admits if that path was chosen.
Interesting – I didn’t pick up on any faux well wishes or snarkiness. In all of Chembiodad’s posts that I have read here, they have without fail appeared to me to be genuine, sincere and helpful.
@Chembiodad Agreed, your scenario is possible. But really, would you choose that for your girls? To not bond with your classmates and come in cold mid-year? Then need to take summer classes or a heavy course load to have a normal graduation (you yourself have posted that most kids take 4 classes a semester)?
As I have mentioned before all Midd students do something separately for the first semester then have 8 semesters of a normal Midd experience: very different than Hamiltons program. Midd structures its Feb program to maximize bonding between the people having that college experience, so I do not feel your analogy is apt.
In any case, its a moot point for now. D has not been made any kind of offer of acceptance so this is just spinning wheels and unneeded stress in an already stressful experience.
@4junior, I think the experience once a student is on campus is the same with the exception of having a separate graduation ceremony which is possible given they have 100 Jan’s. Hamilton Jan’s attend the Fall Orientation and go on an Adirondack Adventure trip like everyone else - that’s why our DD’s know Jan’s before they arrived.
Yes, our DD’s were willing to be Jan’s at the schools that have it - Cornell, Hamilton and Middlebury were the three with Jan programs that they applied to, and yes they know about it in all instances before applying. They have a HS classmate who is a Jan at Middlebury and was working for an NGO prior to starting college - she was fine with it, but its not for everyone.
Agree, yes its too early to worry about. The process is very stressful for students today as the information overload is huge and competition is fierce - when I applied to college in the 80’s no one in my area of the East Coast knew much about Wash U, I just liked it because of the architecture program.