<p>Harvard</a> and UNC Sued Over Their Admission Policies</p>
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<p>Are you serious? What exactly constitutes a “high achieving” student? To be honest, this sounds like a toddler suing his/her parents over a toy. Just stupid. </p>
<p>Although I, being self-interested/Asian, think affirmative action is a bad thing, I don’t think this lawsuit will accomplish anything productive.</p>
<p>I want some bacon, do you guys want some bacon? </p>
<p>In all seriousness, I agree with you @Hawkace. This lawsuit is so stupid and it should just be closed.</p>
<p>I don’t think there should be a limit on Asian students (that’s pretty unfair), but apart from that, affirmative action is one of the only perks that minorities get for being minorities. Can’t white people let us have one thing?</p>
<p>Well personally I believe it should be illegal to ask for the race of an applicant as it should be 100% irrelevant to the applicants merit. The concept of letting race even be a factor (no matter how minor) in determining if an applicant is admitted or not is in itself racist.</p>
<p>I agree with you @RHSclassof16 and I’m all for diversity, but in a ‘fair’ world race wouldn’t impact anything.</p>
<p>Like @RHSclassof16 , I would prefer there was no affirmative action because if I go to a school where there is affirmative action, people will just assume I only got in because of it.</p>
<p>The high achieving students fueling this lawsuit have a lot of chutzpah to think they are more deserving than the other students who were admitted. What makes them think they know the whole story of all the other applicants better than the admissions officers who have access to all the records?</p>
<p>There are pros and cons to affirmative action so I have no strong opinion on it, though I would probably lean toward it being bad cuz im a high achieving Asian. Its straight up discrimination, but it helps people that weren’t in as good as a situation and gives a lot of help to those who had to overcome more even if they ended up doing less</p>
<p>The pros and cons of affirmative action have been discussed on many threads here, so I hope this doesn’t derail into that discussion and take away from discussing the lawsuit. </p>
<p>I wonder if this lawsuit reflects different expectations of how someone is admitted to college. I have a Japanese friend who is confused by the application process here. She said in her country, admission is strictly by scores. When her child applied, essays, and EC’s were new to her. </p>
<p>In France, admission to college is also by getting a certain score on the Baccalaureate test- which is also subject specific- sciences, humanities, etc- and this determined the program of study. </p>
<p>The US is a large and diverse country, and the ideals of the country are different than others. In other countries, students are tracked into academic programs at a young age. Here, we preserve choices longer. School is basically open to all, until college, where it gets competitive. </p>
<p>Also, I don’t believe that a college considers race as an isolated attribute of a person. I do believe “holistic” admission is just that. This is why someone with a lower score may be admitted while someone with a perfect score isn’t, but- with an application that includes grades, scores, letters of recommendation, personal essays and other information about an applicant, I doubt it is just one factor that determines admission. </p>
<p>So while it seems logical for an applicant with a higher score to feel they were more deserving than another applicant, they may not know the entire picture, and so, I don’t see a strong foundation for this lawsuit. </p>
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<p>Not necessarily. Imagine economically well-to-do African American, Hispanic students who had all the opportunities would still get a leg up in admissions based on race, whereas not so well-to-do Asians will be negatively impacted. Quotas based on economic status of the students regardless of race is more equitable.</p>
<p>This entire lawsuit is an absolute farce.</p>
<p>Rhapsody - I totally agree with you. I have always felt back for the white male that comes from a low socioeconomic background. The minority that grows up in a well off situation has a huge advantage. </p>
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<p>Which part is stupid? Are you saying that what the plaintiffs say is inaccurate, or that they are powerless to do anything about it if what they say is accurate.</p>
<p>Demanding admission is silly. There were many, many equally qualified applicants. </p>
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<p>If the lawsuit manages to get the applicant profiles released (after most personal data other than race and income have been removed), then anybody reasonably well versed in statistics can determine the mean and standard deviation of the scores required for admission by race and socioeconomic status. If the numbers are reasonably close, then there is no discrimination based upon race. </p>
<p>However, if the numbers are far apart, then more explanation is needed by the university. Perhaps legacy admissions needs to be added as a control factor. And perhaps athletics. If they can explain the differences with a small number of well understood factors, then they are still in the clear. However, if they cannot, things become quickly much more difficult for them. </p>
<p>That might be a reasonable approach for a stats-only admissions process. These schools use holistic admissions.</p>
<p>Holistic admissions can be used to guide many things. For example it can be used to:</p>
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<li>Get the right number of students in athletics, the choir, or the symphony.</li>
<li>Get representation from various parts of the US and the world. </li>
<li>Get a distribution of various socioeconomic groups</li>
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<p>However, the question is whether holistic admissions is used to create a desired representation of racial groups in a campus (even if unintentionally), and whether that is allowed. For those reasons, I think this is a fascinating lawsuit. </p>
<p>Holistic admissions also considers opportunity and circumstances. </p>
<p>As to UNC, it has to take mostly in state residents, and I am not certain of how this is done but I think they admit students from all areas of the state- otherwise they would fill the class with students from a few areas. The more metropolitan areas have many good schools and resources while rural areas may not. A rural area such as Person has an average SAT ( 3 tests) of about1400, while triangle area high schools’ average is about 1500-1700. A student from the rural area who has an SAT score of 1900 might be truly exceptional while the college might receive numerous applications from students in a metropolitan area with scores of 1900.</p>
<p>I think a student from a rural area with few resources who scores 400+ points higher than the high school average might also get Harvard’s attention.</p>
<p>Why? Because students who have had good schooling may have shown their best potential, but a student with few opportunities has not. That same student in an enriched environment may even have scored higher. </p>
<p>How would anyone see this from a chart, and some information about students is confidential.</p>