Harvard EA massacre

Parents Forum
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<p>If anyone thinks they are a slam dunk or sure bet at one specific college, they have a rude awakening. For example, not all 1600's get in. Not all vals get in. Not all national winners get in. What students at that level CAN fairly safely assume is that they WILL get into one of a handful of elite schools, but can't count on a specific one. For that matter, they better have more than just Ivies on the list.</p>

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I contend that RSI does not represent the best of the best. It represents the best of a priveledged pool.

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<p>I don't get that impression from what I know of the RSI kids from the last year or two. It's important to remember that RSI explicitly sets up regional diversity in its selection of students, so a student from a low-population state in the Rocky Mountains has a good chance as compared to students from high-population states on the coast--as long as that student is outstanding in his or her own state. In my view, applicants to RSI who actually get in are outstanding students, period, although of course Harvard has the right to differ from RSI in what students it selects. </p>

<p>I haven't heard of many outright rejections of the usual award winners this year by Harvard. Most of the Siemens winners and most of the RSI alumni I've read about are deferred to the regular admission round--just as are the huge majority of SCEA applicants to Harvard. It MAY be that the Harvard Financial Aid Initiative is producing a slight nudge toward picking up more low-income students in the early round, which I agree would be a welcome diversification of Harvard's entering class, but I think we should wait till the regular round results are announced before analyzing what Harvard's new admissions emphasis is.</p>

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For that matter, they better have more than just Ivies on the list.

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<p>What? There are more than just Ivies?</p>

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<p>tokenadult, there weren't many outright rejections to Harvard period. I still think it would be better for these kids if Harvard would go ahead and reject the students who don't have a snowball's chance in heck of getting in.</p>

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<p>OK, I'm wading out and showing my ignorance... What is RSI? and I have heard of Siemens and Intel, the companies, but what is the competition? Sorry, but I really would like to know if someone will indulge me.</p>

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<p>With somewhere between 25,000 and 38,000 high schools in the United States alone (I have seen varying figures), OF COURSE not all valedictorians can hope to get into Harvard (with about 2,000 admittees each year yielding an entering class of about 1,600 students). Any valedictorian who can't figure that out, mathematically, is hardly Harvard material. </p>

<p>RSI alumni, Siemens-Westinghouse winners, and Intel regional winners, on the other hand, are much less numerous (even in the aggregate) than the total size of the entering class at any but the smallest highly selective colleges, so they have a more reasonable, but not certain, expectation of getting in to some highly desirable college. But recent historical experience shows that some RSI alumni, and some highly placed students in the science fair competitions (and also some highly placed students in the "olympiad" competitions) DON'T get into their first-choice colleges, even after the regular round decisions have been made. Always each college makes its own decisions. There is NO extracurricular achievement that is a lock on admission for anybody. But I think most of the students who participate in those programs follow previous results in those programs closely enough to know of those historical examples of winners being rebuffed in admission, and participate in those programs because they are interesting and absorbing learning experiences, whether or not they increase one's odds of being admitted to a famous college. </p>

<p>I have really appreciated the parents who have posted in various threads here on CC stories about applicants to one or another highly desired college who did NOT get into their first choice, despite seemingly great qualifications, but who eventually thrived somewhere else. It must be gut-wrenching to be rejected, but a resilient applicant will bounce back and thrive at the school that recognizes the applicant's stong points and still has space in the entering class.</p>

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<p>I'd be much more interested in knowing how many high level ice hockey or football players they deferred or rejected.</p>

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<p>and add to that children of the famous......celeb brats.</p>

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<p>Hi, I see you posted while I was posting my second of two replies above in this thread. Yes, Harvard, by policy, prefers the "polite deferral" to the early rejection. Stanford, another SCEA college, operates the other way and rejects many more of its early applicants, so that they know the final result of their applications sooner. What colleges do with iffy early applicants is just one of the many ways in which colleges differ. Those of us who have been on CC for a year or more (as I think you have) have observed that colleges reach inconsistent decisions--with some students being rejected by "less selective" colleges and admitted by "more selective" colleges. I still have no idea where my oldest son will apply when the time comes to do so, but I will definitely recommend that he apply to our state flagship university (which should be a "safety school" for him, and which has strong programs in his current areas of interest) on a rolling admission basis as early as he possibly can. That way he won't feel "massacred" at this time of the year, whatever other college he aspires to.</p>

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and add to that children of the famous......celeb brats.

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<p>Ahh, but the celeb brats bring much PR...Chelsea brought attention to the fact that there actually are more than 8 good schools in the US. LOL.</p>

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<p>I know a Harvard EA acceptee, the daughter of family friends. While obviously she is no slouch in any area, she is not the math/science profile, more so languages/humanities. She did an IB program, I suspect she is about #2 or #3 in her class, and her SAT scores were extremely good (like 2350-ish)</p>

<p>She is VERY passionate and intellectual; that has been obvious since she was a kid (and sometimes, she was an annoying kid!) She has genuinely LOVED politics for many years. (At dinner parties she'd be the 12-year-old at the table with the adults who lingered, jumping in with political questions and opinions... they may have been naive questions and opinions, but hey, even at 12, she actually HAD them!) Her ECs are also political ones and she has risen to a very high level of leadership (statewide level). </p>

<p>I think she is the perfect example of someone who has real excellence across the board AND genuine passion/accomplishment in a given intellectual area. My bet is that the force of her personality and her passion came across in every area. Now, at 18 she has grown into herself and is sophisticated, informed, and incredibly impressive with no reduction in the overall enthusiasm. </p>

<p>BTW she is still applying to a few other schools though the safeties have been let go. ;)</p>

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<p>SBmom's story is a reminder that with Harvard, it is harder to use Siemens, RSI, Intel, etc... as a predictor of admissions since it also needs and wants to attract students who are passionate about fields other than math and science.</p>

<p>I suspect, though that some, if not most of the math science stars will be admitted RD. Right now, Harvard wants to see what the rest of the pool looks like.</p>

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<p>1Down2togo </p>

<p>I know why The Brats are good, and I don't mean to imply disrespect but rather that if one looks at rejected athletes, look at another category which is not always the same as development admit. Tough is tough......this may be a tough cycle for all of the standards. Flyover states and evangelicals. Turn in the society and now the adcoms. Very interesting.</p>

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<p>My friend just got into Harvard EA, and he did Siemens and has done lots of research and is taking several college classe and stuff.</p>

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<p>Athletes are reasonably common on campus, but based on my D's experience in 1.5 years at H, I don't think there are all that many celeb brats at Harvard. Among her friends, aquaintances, and kids in her classes, I don't think any of them are children of the famous. I'm sure there must be some there some place - just not a lot.</p>

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<p>Here’s my take on science contest winners:</p>

<p>I know of two cases of these winners who were incredible in their field, but had earned Cs and Ds in many of their other subjects and got fair to poor letters of recommendation.</p>

<p>In both cases, the students were accepted by at least two Ivies – at the expense of other, what do you call them here, bright well-rounded kids.</p>

<p>My opinion: I think what these kids do is great and they are brilliant. But if they neglect other subjects and flaunt their brilliance (i.e., I don’t need to do homework for my Spanish teacher because she’s an idiot and math is my love anyway), it irks me if they get accepted over kids who apply themselves across the board. If these are the kids that Harvard is not accepting – that’s good news to me. </p>

<p>And what I’d like to know is why a science expert who is poor in English and history has a better shot of acceptance than a brilliant writer who struggles in math and science. The writer is expected to take a full load of AP sciences and mathematics and get As. My sense is that the standard is lower for those who excel in math and science (I’m willing to be proved wrong – go for it).</p>

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<p>I don't think either is preferable to a winning football quarterback or a hockey left winger.</p>

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<p>"Among her friends, aquaintances, and kids in her classes, I don't think any of them are children of the famous."</p>

<p>Correction needed:
Her friends, acquaintances, and kids in her classes are all happy to hang around the daughter of a famous TV celebrity. :)</p>

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<p>Thanks, but I can promise you that winning some games on Jeopardy does NOT qualify you to be a TV celebrity or help get your kid into any college.</p>

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<p>"Is it possible that the RSI/Siemens/Intel kids figured they were slam-dunks and put little effort into their applications?"</p>

<p>Judging by the surprise, rage and bitterness that some expressed when they got deferred, I think your theory is possible.</p>

<p>Several years ago, I heard about a state beauty queen with 1600 scores who was rejected after blowing off the interview. Apparently she assumed she'd be a shoo-in.</p>