Harvard EA massacre

Parents Forum
41

<p>Well, I'm glad I'm not a Harvard admissions officer. The curious thing about the Harvard SCEA bloodbath threads is, to me at any rate, the lack of a pattern. Great kids are accepted ... great kids deferred and rejected.</p>

<p>My guess is that they are working on some of the pigeonholes, first - sports requirements, $'s, diversity of various sorts, people they really don't want Princeton to get. Sort of like ordering at a Chinese restaurant - one from column a, two from column b. Again, all great kids, but if you have 3 great kids in column a (and you limit SCEA admits), then two of them wait for RD. Maybe some of the RSI etc. kids are column A.</p>

42

<p>I have a feeling that Harvard may want to nab the humanities/social sciences kids this year; it has more competition from other schools whereas it feels fairly confident that the math/science kids will attend if accepted. </p>

<p>There seems to be another massacre unfolding on the Yale board. Only 17.7% accepted EA. Lots more deferrals than before. A pattern is emerging, maybe?</p>

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<p>Quote: "I know of two cases of these winners who were incredible in their field, but had earned Cs and Ds in many of their other subjects and got fair to poor letters of recommendation."</p>

<p>If you read the Harvard thread documenting the stats and decisions for EA applicants, you will see that at least regarding grades, the above does apply at all--the Seimens/RSI kids who were deferred had stellar stats in all areas. However, the quality of letters of recommendation remains, of course, a question mark.</p>

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<p>TO AG54 see Below ... I am from texas also, very involved in some science high school activities and I didn t know what it was ...</p>

<p>------from RSI .Center for Education excellence website-------
Each summer approximately 75 high school students gather for six of the most stimulating weeks of their young lives. Selected from the United States and other nations, these students participate in a rigorous academic program which emphasizes advanced theory and research in mathematics, the sciences, and engineering.This is the Research Science Institute (RSI). </p>

<p>Students attend college-level classes taught by distinguished professors. Nationally recognized teachers conduct classes designed to sharpen research skills. In addition, students complete hands-on research with top mentors at corporations, universities, and research organizations.</p>

<p>Many RSI students use their RSI research projects as a basis for entry to science competitions, garnering top awards in the annual Intel Science Talent Search, the Siemens-Westinghouse Science and Technology Competition, and the All-USA High School Academic Scholarship.</p>

<p>The uniqueness of CEE lies in its commitment to help RSI alumni throughout their academic careers - from college selection through search for graduate fellowships, fostering a community with both camaraderie and intellect. CEE's follow-up program includes helping alumni find suitable summer employment, sponsoring trips to other nations for alumni as Junior Ambassadors, and many other activities.</p>

<p>RSI is open to students who have completed the third year of high school, or the equivalent, by the summer of 2005. The twenty-third annual summer session of RSI will be held at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology from June to August, 2006.</p>

<p>Students selected for RSI will have demonstrated superior achievement in math, the sciences and verbal arts. They will have shown potential to become leaders in science. It is suggested that math PSAT scores be at least 75 and combined math and verbal PSAT scores be at least 140.</p>

45

<p>They took the artistic kids at Princeton last year. One kid whom we helped a lot got in when we thought he had almost no chance of getting in....it's the emphasis each year - artistic, science, humanities etc.</p>

46

<p>Here my D got a letter inviting her to RSI, and since I didn't have a clue what it was and she was already committed for the summer, I threw it away. Goodness. I had no idea.</p>

47

<p>As a follow-up to my post # 10, here are the results for Seimens national winners who applied to Harvard EA: 7 Siemens national finalists applied, three got in. Interestingly, it seemed to follow the Siemens rankings, too. The #1 and #2 individuals got in, #3 and #5 got deferred. One of the #3 team members got in (who was the highest placing team applying EA), while people from #5 and #6 teams were both deferred.</p>

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<p>But last year and the year before, how many applied EA and how many were accepted vs. deferred? Anybody know?</p>

49

<p>From the Crimson, Dec. 15, 2005:</p>

<p>
[quote]
The admissions office will mail out thick envelopes to just more than 800 lucky students today, offering slots in the Class of 2010 to about 21 percent of the early applicant pool.</p>

<p>Although the early admissions rate remained almost identical to the rate for the Class of 2009, Harvard admitted about nine percent fewer students to the incoming class than it did at this point last year. The number of students applying for single-choice early action also dropped by about eight percent.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I believe that Yale's EA admit rate last year was also in the 20% range, but we will know more tomorrow, I assume when the Yale Daily News runs an article.</p>

50

<p>
[quote]
OK, I'm wading out and showing my ignorance... What is RSI? and I have heard of Siemens and Intel, the companies, but what is the competition? Sorry, but I really would like to know if someone will indulge me.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Intel: <a href="http://www.sciserv.org/sts/about/%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.sciserv.org/sts/about/&lt;/a>
Siemens: <a href="http://www.siemens-foundation.org/competition/about.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.siemens-foundation.org/competition/about.htm&lt;/a>
RSI: <a href="http://www.cee.org/rsi/index.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cee.org/rsi/index.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Sorry Marite and all, what I meant to say was:</p>

<p>But last year and the year before, how many SIEMENS awardees applied EA and how many were accepted vs. deferred? Anybody know?</p>

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<p>Soozie,
sorry for the delay in my response....I do agree that NO one has a lock on any school....unless one walks on water??? </p>

<p>I can only hope that a kid who is striving to be best of the best (of the overprivledged??) has someone there helping them keep a wide lens view and not a narrow focus. It cannot be a means to an end... it needs to be important for its own right. I do not personally know what the numbers/percentages look like overall for RSI or Siemens or Intel winners.. for either early or for RD......for the past 5 yrs. Part of my job involves performance analysis of computers....and I have learned to look for trends and for abnormalities. All I really meant was a "kid" looking at the numbers...and thinking that my chances are better because I am the best.....in fact 40% of folks that match me have gotten in, in the past......it is easy to be seduced by this view... and they may not even know themselves how much they are banking on it. </p>

<p>I think my perspective was more one of a kid who is really all about numbers not really being prepared to see themselves as an exception. </p>

<p>In fact, in our little town this year, we have had great success with early acceptances....Dartmouth, Wesleyan, Holy Cross, Haverford, Georgetown etc etc..... not hearing of any Yale, Princeton, Columbia or Harvard early apps, never mind decisions on them....which leads me to believe that kids this year at least, here, did change their sights??? </p>

<p>I know when I read the top kids article in USA today I am always amazed and in awe of what these kids are accomplishing. Not sure how much assistance they have...but, at the end of the day, they own who they claim to be......eventually they will have to stand on their own. </p>

<p>Bandit, I remain unconvinced that priviledge is buying all these top spots. I think priviledge can provide an awful lot of distractions or illusions of success that cannot withstand close inspection. To get to the top of the heap in Intel or Siemens or RSI etc etc...... the kid has to have some real content.....that is my gut...I think there are a lot of priviledged kids who are a real disappointment to their parents.....I would bet probably more who disappoint than ones whose parents are proud?? </p>

<p>I guess my wish for the admissions process is that I wish kids didn't take it all so personally. Both acceptance and deferral/rejection. College is only 4 yrs of one's life. There are so many places where great things can happen....academically, research opps, creative outlets, political petri dishes, etc etc.....I have a very dear friend whose son wanted desperately to go to MIT......he was not accepted, he went to Tufts. He got a great award ($$) upon graduation and is currently getting his PHD at Harvard, paid for by Harvard. And oh, by the way, he can take classes at MIT if he needs a course not offered by Harvard. My view is that this worked out exactly perfect!! Once upon a time, he might have been sad...but, not today!!</p>

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<p>Sandiegomom1: I don't know how many of these kids were accepted last year. My son, accepted EA for '09, was a Seimen's semi-finalist, published first author, and Intel finalist, but the last wasn't announced until after EA decisions (which, in light of this year's results, makes me wonder how he got in!) Last year's Seimens national winner (also an Intel finalist), a good friend of my son's, is at Harvard, as are a good bunch of the 40 Intel finalists from last year.
Another interesting thing about how different schools value these awards: Stanford has a well known, clearly acknowledged policy that they offer acceptance to any Intel finalist who applies.</p>

54

<p>"I have a feeling that Harvard may want to nab the humanities/social sciences kids this year;"</p>

<p>My impression has been for a long time that strong humanities students have an edge in admissions because of the overabundance of students who plan to be doctors and major in the sciences or math.</p>

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<p>Maineparent, I agree with all you just wrote.....Soozie</p>

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<p>First, no one from RSI automatically thinks they're a shoo-in. People seem to think that RSI => all colleges. But really, the way it works is closer to (student => RSI) => (student => all colleges), i.e., the students that get in to RSI are also able to get into many good colleges; it's not that RSI does it for them.</p>

<p>So far this year, of around 50 applicants to Stanford, MIT, Harvard, and Caltech, everyone has been accepted except for 9 deferrals from Harvard (the actual statistics are online, but sorry, it's just for us :P). That puts Harvard at a little more than 60% acceptance rate from RSI. That's pretty low for RSI, but I believe that this year at RSI was relatively weak, at least looking at '04. We won't know for sure until Intel, however.</p>

<p>I also believe that everyone that was deferred (including me) was not simply "put on hold" until later. Actually, I think maybe 2% or so of the deferred pool is like that, and get's in. The rest of us, however (this is where I am), are put on conditional rejection. I doubt that Harvard just wants to "nab" certain types of people now and leave us science and math kids for the regular round.</p>

<p>Edit: I am surprised Aaron Goldin went to Harvard. He seemed much more the MIT type when I met him in Berkeley, most because of his strong engineering background and Harvard's relatively (to MIT) weak engineering.</p>

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<p>Harvard admissions is more random (esp. for science people) than other similar colleges (i.e. Pton, Stanford).</p>

<p>And yeah, Harvard engineering sucks.</p>

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<p>Same wish goes for parents. . .</p>

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<p>The problem is that it IS a very personal process.</p>

60

<p>A lot of the previous posts were bothering me so let me comment:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Being a SWC Nat'l finalist does not automatically mean intelligence. Intel does, though, being a much more comprehensive competition. So it makes sense that a much higher percentage of Intel finalists get into Harvard.</p></li>
<li><p>"I hope it's an indication that RSI and Siemens are no longer a guaranteed ticket into Harvard, as they represent a very small proportion of the brightest kids in the country. I think Harvard is beginning to embrace diversity." ------- Who ever said RSI == Harvard? I don't know a single RSI alum who would say that.</p></li>
<li><p>"I contend that RSI does not represent the best of the best. It represents the best of a priveledged pool. Just because you attend a NE high school that promotes RSI and science competitions doesn't mean you are necessarily smarter than the kid in podunk high school that never heard of it." ------- This is a pretty idiotic statement to make. In fact, most of the rickoids do not come from "a NE high school that promotes RSI."</p></li>
<li><p>Again, like zogoto said, RSI doesn't get anyone in. It's just that the qualities CEE looks for happen to be pleasing to adcoms. And Harvard is the one odd-ball school, especially for science people of the RSI-type. So far, RSI05 has perfect acceptance at all schools except Harvard.</p></li>
<li><p>"Here my D got a letter inviting her to RSI, and since I didn't have a clue what it was and she was already committed for the summer, I threw it away. Goodness. I had no idea." ----- That's the biggest load of bull **** I've ever heard of. CEE doesn't "invite" anyone to attend unless they apply. Maybe she got invited to apply, but that means absolutely nothing. And if your daugher applied and you threw away an acceptance, you are a moron and I feel bad for your daughter. Lastly: RSI acceptance is <5%.</p></li>
</ol>