<p>A while ago, friend suggested the following similarities between Harvard Law and Goldman Sachs:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Only the smart, lucky exceptional few in their respective fields get into them.</p></li>
<li><p>Both are regarded as the most prestigious institutions in their respective fields by the average Joe on the street.</p></li>
<li><p>Neither are regarded as the most prestigious institution by professionals in their respective fields (law and finance). Yale Law is arguably more prestigious than Harvard Law. Bain Cap, Blackstone PE, etc. are considered more prestigious than Goldman IBD, and Goldman is usually a springboard for those small elite buy-side shops.</p></li>
<li><p>Both can be springboard to most sought after jobs (clerkship, portfolio managers, etc.)</p></li>
</ol>
<p>To me, it seems like a waste of time to compare these these institutions because they are so different. You have to spend close to $80000/year to attend Harvard Law, while you make about $90000 (incl. bonus) as a 1st year analyst at Goldman. You have a life at Harvard Law, while you don't even sleep when working for Goldman.</p>
<p>Apples are indeed similar to oranges: both grow on trees, are approximately round, can be consumed as juice, and are part of a healthy diet.</p>
<p>Does our seeming fetish for money and prestige continue unabated, despite the revelations of the past 2-3 years? What does Goldman produce, if they are not helping businesses raise capital?</p>
True, it can be a springboard for “a few”. I wonder how many in “finance” actually make it after 3-4 years.
The funny thing about finance is that people always look at the small % that actually “make it” and are convinced that will be them in the future. It’s no different than each person thinking they are better than the average driver on the road.</p>
<p>Same goes for the law route. Everybody and their mother thinks their going to make partner at Watchell. How many actually stick biglaw out for 4+ years? One YLS grad in my area is now an insurance adjuster.</p>
<p>“True, it can be a springboard for “a few”. I wonder how many in “finance” actually make it after 3-4 years.”</p>
<p>It can be a springboard. And, for the vast majority who don’t end making millions each year, they still make a decent living on over $200,000/person/year three years out. Not bad considering the average family in the US makes about $50,000/year (not just three years out) and considering that the typical professor at Harvard makes no where near that after three years on the job.</p>
<p>“Everybody and their mother thinks their going to make partner at Watchell.”
Associate positions at biglaw aren’t even the most sought after positions for JDs at YHS, clerkship are.</p>
That’s being fairly optimistic. That’s considered “low end” associate pay for someone in IB.
There’s a few that make millions…
There’s some that make the figure ($200,000) you described…
And there’s a lot that don’t even make it there…</p>
<p>To be honest, I’ve seen people of average intelligence that worked far less than what it takes to get into and do average in IB make $200,000 or more per year by playing their cards right in government.</p>
<p>Basically, if you went to law school or got an MBA for the purpose of making money and you make less than a government worker, you failed.</p>
<p>Getting into Goldman IBD is a more valuable commodity than getting into HLS in this economy. You build sick connections in finance and make 6 figure salary few years out. And, it will be an excellent preparation for entry into a top MBA program. </p>
<p>Harvard Law, on the other hand, doesn’t guarantee a BigLaw associate offer. (There are noticeable numbers of students at HLS who got nothing out of OCI in recent years.) And, in the legal industry, if you don’t get BigLaw, you are basically screwed.</p>
<p>And… most of HLS grads do have huge debts to pay. HLS doesn’t offer merit scholarships. Besides, if you don’t get BigLaw, you are likely to get a job paying 50k a year (if intend to stay in legal field). Nobody intends to go to a top law school (or even a mediocre law school) for the purpose of getting jobs paying such amount. Thus, not getting BigLaw, clerkships, or prestigious government jobs would mean absolute failure for any top law student. (btw, I hear that clerkships and prestigious government jobs are harder to get than BigLaw)</p>
<p>Hahahaha… dude get a life. No offense, but what’s the deal with you picking on others’ thoughts into pointless arguments? I merely said that any law student capable of attending a place like Harvard Law wouldn’t be happy with jobs other than BigLaw, clerkships, or prestigious government positions after 3 years of hard work and tons of debts.</p>
<p>You do realize that many prestigious positions outside of biglaw pay around that much, right? </p>
<p>And while HLS doesn’t give merit-based aid, they are surprisingly generous with need-based aid. A lot of my friends there have need-based grants.</p>
<p>“Getting into Goldman IBD is a more valuable commodity than getting into HLS in this economy. You build sick connections in finance and make 6 figure salary few years out.”</p>
<p>Working for Goldman isn’t great either. In addition to the 100 hour weeks and consecutive all-nighters. The average Joes think that you are evil. Professionals in finance and consulting think that you are a tool. JDs (most being intellectual lightweights themselves) look down to you with disdain for being a simpleton who doesn’t have a doctorate. Most JDs from HLS makes 6 figures their first year out.</p>
<p>“The average Joes think that you are evil.”</p>
<p>True, but lawyers get bad rep among average joes as well…</p>
<p>“Working for Goldman isn’t great either. In addition to the 100 hour weeks and consecutive all-nighters.”</p>
<p>And, BigLaw associate jobs are very demanding as well. Being a lawyer is certainly no cake compared to working in finance.</p>
<p>“Most JDs from HLS makes 6 figures their first year out.”</p>
<p>Yes. But, a decent number of HLS grads don’t. (around 1/3 of HLS student body) Factor in the opportunity cost of not working for 3 years, tons of debt, and 3 additional years of studying after college… Goldman IBD wins.</p>
<p>“JDs (most being intellectual lightweights themselves) look down to you with disdain for being a simpleton who doesn’t have a doctorate.”</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone would look down on you, if you work for Goldman IBD. It is as prestigious as it can get.</p>