Harvard/NEC after attending Harvard

College Majors Music Major
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<p>That’s interesting about the wording in Harvard materials allowing music majors to take longer, compmom. Everyone seems to be in a huge rush these days and my son has friends who arrive on campus with sophomore or even junior standing. I think college is over much too quickly and my approach was to prolong as long as possible by staying on for grad school and then teaching. </p>

<p>The distribution requirements are a significant consideration and can be burdensome. The number of credits required to graduate can be deflected if you have APs and apply them for credit fulfillment (without accelerating your class rank). If you don’t have that option, the course load can feel heavy, unless some of the credits are private music lessons, etc.</p>

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<p>Heleta, it is difficult, but not impossible for a student to continue pursuing different instruments or genres in college. However, he/she has to be incredibly organized, and time efficient. I think supplemental lessons on a second instrument, or a minor, are far easier to manage than an entire second major. My son had three instruments/genres that he played in high school and had to give up one in college. Managing two is difficult enough!</p>

<p>I will say that 1.5-2 hours of practice a day is very little for a performance program. At NEC, they would expect at least double that. With the Harvard coursework, and the composition work at NEC, it will be hard to fit in. These are the harsh realities that kids have to face in college—making tough choices! The can’t “do it all”, or at least do it all well.</p>

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<p>Heleta, Stringkeymom can answer this for sure, but I thought there were, in fact, private composition lessons at Yale, mainly with grad students, although some study with Kathryn Alexander.</p>

<p>At Harvard, another option, rather than doing composition lessons at NEC, is to study privately with one of the NEC teachers. This saves $4-5,000 a year, actually. This may make it harder to get music played, I don’t really know. Getting music played is a big issue for students everywhere, of course, but conservatories do make it easier.</p>

<p>Harvard students have recently started a composers collective for undergrad composers to get compositions read or played. We’ll see how that works out: it is typical of the entrepreneurial creativity that is needed for composers of all ages, to get their pieces performed. Others here would know about similar efforts at other schools. </p>

<p>I think that doing two instruments, studying composition at NEC, and doing a BA at Harvard is a lot! If it is doable, I wonder what will be lost in terms of the Harvard experience. Or the NEC experience.</p>

<p>Honestly, some of the students at the Ivies mentioned on this thread, are doing their best composing during summer and winter breaks!</p>

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<p>Thanks all. And yes, Allmusic, it is supplemental lessons he is after, not a second major. Instrument lessons would be on the side, possibly with some NEC teacher but more likely with local, hopefully understanding, Boston teachers alternating weeks. 1.5 -2 hours practice sounds woeful, doesn’t it? Well, I don’t really know what he would be able to manage. All he knows at this point is that he doesn’t want to give up either instrument, wants to play his own compositions (wasn’t that the norm for composers before the computer age?), and just loves playing music with friends. S would be at NEC for weekly comp lessons. We assumed that he would get the composer he indicated as his first choice, but after the fore-warning of another parent and installment 7, “So you want to be a music major”, we found today that S might have to be content with whomever they assign. He’s okay with that.</p>

<p>Yes, being organized … hmmm … I would be curious to know if anyone saw a transformation, or increasing improvement in their S or D’s organizational skills once in college, and if so, what was the key to that development?</p>

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<p>Heleta,</p>

<p>My son’s organizational skills and discipline improved markedly between the end of high school and early college. The impetus was necessity. Once he arrived at Tufts/NEC there was so much he wanted to do that he quickly developed the skills that would enable him to do it all. He’s pretty much like a kid in a candy shop. He can’t say no to any interesting course or opportunity. </p>

<p>Every so often he overshoots what is humanly possible in a given time frame but he’s learned a great deal from those experiences as well (humility, stress management, prioritization, the disadvantages of overcommitment etc.) He’s in the midst of a week that includes his customary workload (23 credits plus one audited course, 4 work shifts, composition lesson, violin lesson, chamber rehearsal and coaching) plus 3 nights of orchestra rehearsal and a performance on the 4th night. He has two rehearsals tomorrow and a performance on Sunday. His schedule sounds insane to me, but he is clearly thriving and continues to pack in as much music as he possibly can. </p>

<p>The work does seem to pile up at certain times during the semester, especially at the end. DS often arrives home exhausted and spends the first week of each break catching up on his sleep. Still, I don’t think he’d trade his experience for anything and his very busy schedule seems to work for him, so long as he stays healthy.</p>

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<p>How much does your son manage to practice ?
Is 3-4 hours of practice a day at college for a non-music major unrealistic ?</p>

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<p>There are a couple of considerations for non-music majors contemplating this much practice time:</p>

<p>1 - Will they have access to a place to practice?
Some schools do not make it easy for non-music majors to get practice space or to store their instruments, particularly large instruments. Some may charge a fee for access to practice rooms. Some may barely have enough space for their music majors. Some have specific prohibitions against storing or playing instruments in dormitories. These are good things to ask about if you are planning on singing or playing a lot as a non-major.</p>

<p>2 - Will they have this much time to devote to practice?
Assuming space is not an issue, a non-music major will have to be very dedicated and very organized to fit in this much practice. It will mean having to sacrifice a fair amount of social life. It will also be simply impossible on some days when you just have to get a couple of papers written and study for a midterm. Some schools are more known for piling on the work than others. Some majors are simply more time intensive than others.</p>

<p>So, with the right student, the right major and the right school, 3-4 hours of practice may be possible on a good day. It will not be easy to maintain that schedule over the long haul.</p>

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<p>rlm: My jaw drops in astonishment and admiration - really. Well, your S is a human being, so maybe their is hope for my S. </p>

<p>Bassplayer08, I think your question is to rlm, right? A few years back my S tried to practice 3 hours/day on each instrument, but he walked around the house like a zombie. He cut one instrument down to half that time, with a lesson every other week, (major & minor instrument) and has managed quite well. But I am under the assumption that college will be even more work, so that he might not be able to manage as much time with them, whilst increasing the time he spends on composition. I think time-management will be the biggest concern, and a motivated student just might be able to do it.</p>

<p>Thanks, once again.</p>

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<p>with a full load as a non-music major (or as a music major in a BA program, where you study mostly academic music) practicing 3-4 hours a day would be pretty tough, and requires a good deal of self-motivation and sacrifice of social time and study time. In BMus and double degree programs, the music lessons are part of the course load and the latter programs are extended over 5 years, so there can be one fewer course where you would be writing papers and more time in the typical day to practice; there is also more external pressure/discipline because the performance course in BMus programs generally involves more units and a grade and there are also juries and compulsory recitals that keep you on your toes, though of course not every student needs such additional motivation.</p>

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<p>Thank you very much all for your answers.
Heleta, yes I was asking rlm but thank you, it’s still helpful.</p>

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<p>My son in his first year of a double degree program is taking three academic classes plus private classes for credit in composition and conducting. He elected not to take private lessons in his instrument this year - wanting to feel out the time management issues discussed here. He played in one new music concert first semester - but generally took it easy. Except that he had a commission to write a 15-20 minute orchestra piece, in addition to his regular composition load. Second semester he joined the college orchestra, started a new music ensemble that has four concerts on and off campus (one coming up in May in NYC!) and in which he plays in multiple pieces and conducts, and for which he is doing the booking and promotion, performed in a friend’s opera, played in another composer’s piece, and generally jams with friends day and night. And goes to one of the many concerts and events on campus. I would guess he spends 3-4 hours a day composing. He did not get a regular job, but is doing work here and there for spending money. He is up until 3am every night. Could he add three hours of practice to that - no, not and read all the assigned books and write all the papers - even with only three academic classes. Bard is a writing/reading intensive school. As are the Ivies. They expect a lot of one’s time outside of class will be devoted to one’s books. Perhaps one thing to consider when choosing the type of program is how fast do you read, and how well and how facilely do you write? </p>

<p>Because he is in a program that takes five years and is entirely supportive of the double degree, and, as Mamenyu said, includes his musical life as part of the curriculum, it is doable and exciting. And he hasn’t gotten sick. Indeed, he has gotten as well as can be!</p>

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<p>Heleta:
I can answer in the affirmative, that it is definitely possible to put in 2-3 hours daily in instrumental practice while carrying an academic load. I know plenty of kids doing that. Even pre-meds. The amount of time put in at the library or in a practice room is definitely an individual matter and entirely up to the student. It does require discipline, and since this amount of time adds up to an extra curricular or two, it does mean choices.</p>

<p>In terms of the alternating weeks, here is something we have done in the past that could work. If you sign up for half hour weekly lessons, often the teacher is willing to see you every other week for an hour. Your son could do that on both instruments, pending the teacher’s agreement.</p>

<p>Compmom: I do think it is possible to study privately, either on an instrument or with composition faculty at Yale. This is something the student must work out separately with the teacher. </p>

<p>Compmom, what you said about composers writing during summer and winter breaks would apply to my son. However, violin performance, not composition, is his main focus, and he has been able to put in significant practice and performance time on his instrument all year. He made the choice to forego taking composition this year and took a very heavy academic load in order to nuke as many requirements as possible. Next year he will take all music courses. So, yes, he did have to put his composing on the back burner freshman year, in favor of keeping up his performance. It looks like beginning next year, he will have time for everything. If not, I promise to come back to these threads and eat my words.</p>

<p>Spirit Manager said a mouthful: “Perhaps one thing to consider when choosing the type of program is how fast do you read, and how well and how facilely do you write?” </p>

<p>Also, I would add–what does the student need to be happy and to keep on target. What will sustain them through the years of hard work required of a musician?
Some kids truly just want to focus on their music to the exclusion of all else. Others have many interests and seek a way to keep broad in their undergrad education. </p>

<p>I think it does bear repeating, since some here seem determined to nay say, that there truly are no hard and fast rules as to whether or not a double degree program will work. It is such an individual matter, and there are many factors to consider.</p>

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<p>fyi Yale website re Private Lessons:</p>

<p>Music lessons are offered at the School of Music to students in Yale College, the Graduate School of Arts and Sciences, and the Professional Schools.</p>

<p>Members of the Yale and New Haven communities who are not registered students and wish to hire a School of Music student should refer to the Gig List, which will provide information on students who are interested in teaching.</p>

<p>Instruction is available in the following areas: Flute, Oboe, Clarinet, Bassoon, Horn, Trumpet, Trombone, Tuba, Percussion, Harp, Piano, Organ, Guitar, Voice, Violin, Viola, Cello, and Double Bass.</p>

<p>Students interested in Composition, Choral Conducting, and Orchestral Conducting will find classes in the Department of Music and in the School of Music offered each academic semester.</p>

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<p>Mamenyu, it is also possible to make private arrangements without going through the Yale registrar.</p>

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<p>BassDad, I just wanted to respond on this because for non music majors who want to keep up their music, it is an entirely different experience. I speak from my personal history, as I started out in a music school in piano performance and never had much trouble getting practice rooms, though I had to be sharp about it. When I transferred to the liberal arts school, everything changed. I would have been able to continue playing 3 hours a day which I did just for joy, but I was never able to get a practice room again as, necessarily, they were reserved for students in the music school. If you are not taking lessons for credit at Yale, it is an entirely different outlook.</p>

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<p>Bassplayer08,</p>

<p>I’d say DS’s practice time averages from 8 - 12 hours per week depending on how much composing he is doing and the academic and performance demands in any given week. His official major at NEC is composition so that is his first responsibility. He is studying violin privately with an NEC prof and playing in the Tufts Orchestra and Chamber Orchestra under Gil Rose (of BMOP) plus a chamber ensemble at NEC. </p>

<p>His weekday schedule is ridiculously full so he often does a majority of his composing and practicing on the weekends.</p>

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<p>stringkeymom,</p>

<p>That is definitely the problem at some schools. AT others, it is not as much of an issue. When I was an undergrad Engineering student many moons ago, I rarely had trouble finding a practice room in which to sing for an hour or two a day but that was at a state U that did not have a BM program at all and only a fairly small music department.</p>

<p>I have heard of some piano students in particular who were able to get around the problem in different ways, including getting permission from their teacher to use the piano in the teacher’s office when it was not occupied, playing for a local church in return for being able to practice there during the week, renting private studio space, and teaching local kids at their homes and being allowed to come an hour early or stay an hour late to practice.</p>

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<p>No need to be amazed, Heleta; DS is definitely human! To my mind, he is spread too thin. He got sick for several weeks last semester and really struggled for a while. I would rather see him lighten his load a bit so there is a larger margin for error (or relaxation!), but it’s his life to live. When push comes to shove, he will always invest more time in music than academics but he still manages to do quite well on the academic front. During his illness last semester he had to back off on his piano practicing which really bothered him.</p>

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<p>I am sure that each student composer has different habits for work, and these habits probably vary as well with what they are doing in a particular semester: what is asked of them, how much free time they have, or even their state of mind. Some like to have fallow periods, and others work all the time. Finding a program that suits your son’s work habits, personality and rhythm of work is the key!</p>

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<p>Spirit Manager said a mouthful: “Perhaps one thing to consider when choosing the type of program is how fast do you read, and how well and how facilely do you write?” </p>

<p>This may indeed be the key to managing heavy duty academics and music simultaneously. DS has read faster than me since he was a boy and he writes quickly and well.</p>