Harvard/NEC after attending Harvard

College Majors Music Major
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<p>I just have to clarify again some of the facts regarding Yale.</p>

<p>If a student takes music lessons for credit, they are not assigned to a graduate student. They study with faculty. Depending on the instrument and the student’s audition, this could be a School of Music faculty member or a Yale Department of Music instrumental performance professor. Which faculty member accepts the student in their studio is dependent on the student’s audition. I hope I will be corrected if wrong, but it is my understanding that students who do not pass the audition for lessons for credit take music lessons from SOM graduate students and pay. </p>

<p>As for the practice rooms, I am afraid to post this because tomorrow will prove me wrong, but so far, neither my son nor anyone else he knows has ever been kicked out of a practice room by a graduate student. It really hasn’t been a problem (except for one week when New Haven symphony was holding auditions and the practice rooms were oversubscribed).</p>

<p>If we are going to debate the question of Ivy League/LAC vs double degree programs vs straight conservatory, I think it’s been discussed before, I am sure there are previous threads.</p>

<p>The main issues, which are coming up now, are more relevant, that is, will there be adequate time for practice given the heavy academic work of an LAC or Ivy League school, etc. In such a case, the degree of musical development is a factor as to whether the student can manage to carry a heavy academic load without losing ground. </p>

<p>Allmusic, thanks for the clarification on Harvard students in the double degree program with NEC.</p>

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<p>For future reference to those prospective students wondering about how Yale says their lessons and BA/MM program work: </p>

<p>From the Yale website:
Private Lessons
Music lessons are offered at the School of Music to students in Yale College, the Graduate School of Arts and Sciences, and the Professional Schools.</p>

<p>Instruction is available in the following areas: Flute, Oboe, Clarinet, Bassoon, Horn, Trumpet, Trombone, Tuba, Percussion, Harp, Piano, Organ, Guitar, Voice, Violin, Viola, Cello, and Double Bass.</p>

<p>Students interested in Composition, Choral Conducting, and Orchestral Conducting will find classes in the Department of Music and in the School of Music offered each academic semester.</p>

<p>Most students will receive instruction from graduate students enrolled in the School of Music, and some will study with members of the School of Music Faculty.</p>

<p>Students are enrolled in lessons in one of two ways: (1) Lessons for Credit or (2) Fee-Based Lessons. Lessons for credit are offered with faculty approval only, and certain undergraduate theory prerequisites apply.</p>

<p>some relevant FAQ’s</p>

<ol>
<li><p>May I take music lessons and receive academic credit?
Answer: Yes. Qualified students may apply up to four performance credits toward the thirty-six-credit requirement for the Bachelor of Arts. Only two performance credits may apply toward the twelve-credit requirement for the music major. Lessons are offered in cooperation with the Yale School of Music. Placement auditions are held the first week of school every September.</p></li>
<li><p>May I take music lessons without credit?
Answer:Yes. A fee is charged. The fee for 12 half-hour lessons is $300, and $500 for 12 one-hour lessons per semester. Students are required to audition for non-credit music lessons as well.</p></li>
<li><p>How should I prepare for placement auditions in September?
Answer: Students hoping to enroll in performance courses, lessons for credit, the Yale Bands, the Yale Glee Club, and the Yale Symphony Orchestra, among others, should arrive at Yale College in September with two pieces of your choice ready for audition. It is best, but not required that these pieces be memorized. Singers may bring music for accompanists, who are provided.</p></li>
<li><p>How do I apply for the B.A./M.M. program?
Answer: Students in Yale College possessing outstanding ability in composition or performance may apply for the B.A./M.M program, whether they major in music oranother discipline. Interested students should consult their principal teacher at the beginning of their junior year.</p></li>
<li><p>What is the difference between the Yale Department of Music and the Yale School of Music?
Answer: The Yale Department of Music offers curricular instruction at both the undergraduate and graduate levels. For Yale College study towards the B.A. in Music, courses are offered in composition, conducting, ethnomusicology, music history, music theory, and performance. As part of the Graduate School of Arts and Sciences, the Yale Department of Music offers advanced courses in music theory and musicology leading to the Ph.D. The School of Music is a professional school offering only graduate degrees in composition, conducting, and music performance.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>Thank you all so much for these wonderful responses filled with healthy debate. I will post here what I find out from Yale over the upcoming first half of next week. They sent out the Bulldog Days schedule and the first word I searched for in the PDF was “opera”. I found that the Undergrad Opera Theatre is hosting a performance and dinner in one of the residential colleges from 4:30-7:00 on Tuesday, which I think will glean a lot on what is going on with respect to music at Yale. I suspect that I will find many other students at the school who will be able to tell me more, and candidly at that, about the seriousness of music at Yale. Later on in the week, I’ll be going to Harvard and seeing what is going on over there. </p>

<p>Special thanks to both mamenyu and stringkeymom for your wonderful insights. In decision-making, I always believe you should always look at things empirically before you jump into the gut side of things (which eventually overtakes everything :P) and both of you present great points as well as very good supplementary material. As Lorelei said, the practice room situation is not AS vital to the singer, but I do have to go off on what mamenyu said and say that I was impressed with the amount of practice rooms at Oberlin (during my audition). There were so many kids there and yet there were rooms open =].</p>

<p>I’m hoping that through visiting all these schools, I will just “feel” something and know where it is I’m supposed to go.</p>

44

<p>Enjoy your visits and best of luck.</p>

45

<p>Hi Terrence, </p>

<p>Just a quick bit to add to this thread–it is indeed worth underlining that the needs of various musicians will be met in different ways at Ivies vs. conservatories. For those planning on some version of a professional performing career, pianists and singers will have a very different experience than, say, a tuba or double bass player, where orchestral training is key. </p>

<p>Anyway…from my perspective reviewing the applications to a top-tier, highly selective (10% acceptance rate) graduate vocal arts program, I’d say that at least for us, while the majority of the standout voice applicants have indeed come from conservatories, the one university that generally holds its own in terms of producing equally fine singers is Yale. This is merely my own impression, gleaned from the limited (~70) number of singers that apply to Bard each year, but I can say with some confidence that the raw materials certainly exist on Yale’s campus to grow and develop as a singer of outstanding, pre-professional quality.</p>

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<p>mamenyu:</p>

<p>I believe you are drawing an erroneous inference from this statement on the Yale website:</p>

<p>“Most students will receive instruction from graduate students enrolled in the School of Music, and some will study with members of the School of Music Faculty.”</p>

<p>“Most students” in that sentence refers to the entire Yale undergraduate body. “Some” refers to those who are musically qualified for conservatory level study. OK?</p>

<p>Terence: Do make sure to check out the practice rooms in the School of Music and Department of Music when you visit Yale. </p>

<p>Enjoy your campus visits!</p>

<p>You have great choices and any decision you make will be the right one!</p>

47

<p>

</p>

<p>The information I have gleaned, and it may now be a bit dated, is that even the “musically qualified” are still only taken by SOM faculty solely at the discretion of SOM applied faculty.</p>

<p>Is it conceivable that a “musically qualified” applicant may not want a specific SOM applied teacher that has agreed to take them? Is it not also conceivable that in some instances or instruments a “musically qualified applicant” may not find any SOM faculty willing to take them as undergrads?</p>

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<p>Actually, I drew no inference. I made a statement that “most students” study with grad students. That was confirmed on the Yale website. Is this not the case? </p>

<p>Ultimately, these are wonderful opportunities all, and in the case of the OP, he has hit the jackpot and can’t go wrong; he is also a charming voice on these threads. I wish him all the best.</p>

49

<p>A student posted this in 2005 - it may be outdated, but it may also offer some good suggestions (it’s from “fishyface” to “amypianist” who frequented these boards while deciding between Yale and Harvard (ultimately chose Harvard):</p>

<p>Thoughts on UG music study at Yale</p>

<p>Hi everyone, I’m the suitemate that thesmartazz referred to a while ago. I’m a sophomore at Yale and a music major. I’ll give you a brief run-down of my performance study at Yale and tell you what I think about the system. (Apologies for the long post!)</p>

<p>When I came to Yale, I felt 90% sure that I was going to get piano lessons for credit. I had been accepted to Indiana and Michigan university music schools (though not Oberlin); one of the Yale School of Music professors I spoke with thought that I would most likely qualify for lessons. I auditioned at the beginning of freshman year but was assigned to a graduate student. I was also assigned to a grad student at the beginning of this year.</p>

<p>The graduate students I’ve studied with have all been competent teachers, but certainly not as effective as a professor would be. I took a a few lessons with college professors in high school, and it’s very, very different. Practice time can be a problem sometimes, but a bigger problem for me is getting motivated to practice when I’m doing 5 classes and various extracurriculars. </p>

<p>So, for me at any rate, Yale’s system of undergraduate lessons just plain sucks. If you are confident that you would be admitted to somewhere like Juilliard, you shouldn’t have as much of a problem.</p>

<p>From what I’ve seen and experienced, your best bet might be to do the following BEFORE making your decision to come to Yale:</p>

<p>1) Arrange to play for one of the School of Music faculty, ideally one you’re specifically interested in studying with. Even if they don’t feel you’re ready for credit lessons, you’ll have a connection with someone in the music school who might be able to help you later.
2) Talk to the music department or an SoM professor about getting credit for lessons with a graduate student. This is not officially an option, but I know of one case where a professor arranged for a student to do this with the understanding that the student would study with him the following year.</p>

<p>One other thing: while the undergraduate lessons system is not so good, the overall musical environment at Yale is amazing. If you’re just interested in “keeping up your skills,” there are plenty of opportunities to play.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>From a pure performance pursuit focus, that is the conclusion I have reached based on my knowledge of both past and recent Yale music undergrads. Personally, I still feel it is the best of the Ivys in terms of both depth and breath of peer level from the perspective of an undergrad both for an exceptional undergrad academic experience as well as the potential of providing most, if not all of the background for MM performance pursuit.</p>

<p>But again, that’s my $.02. Your pockets may well have a different mix of coins.</p>

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<p>S wants to major in composition, whilst keeping up his piano & violin skills by taking alternating lessons each week. I am wondering how realistic this is. He has managed school (home-school actually) and all three music disciplines thoughout high-school, although has concentrated on composing during the summers after his sophmore and junior years. Harvard/NEC has the big lure of weekly private composition lessons at NEC. Instrument lessons would be private. Does anyone know of someone who has managed a similar arrangement whom we could contact? We know of one dual degree composer who is managing his time quite well and getting lots of his compositions performed, but dropped his instrument practice because he lost interest. My S loves performance however and would hope to continue playing (say 1.5 - 2 hours practice/day).</p>

<p>I know one needs to factor in travel time in Boston. At Yale everything is contained, but he would not get private composition lessons. And BTW we were told by a Yale faculty member that no composer from the undergraduate school has received acceptance into the dual degree - BA/MM - program in the last twenty years. UMich is up there too - very friendly faculty. To make matters a bit more complicated, S is thinking of doing a Literature degree if he were to go to Harvard. It apparently it is a very broad cross-discipline degree.</p>

<p>One note aside: S ticked the box on the NEC application form to say that he would not consider NEC if he didn’t get into the dual program. For those future applicants, maybe that helps gain acceptance?</p>

<p>Thanks so much for all the time everyone puts into this forum.</p>

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<p>heleta, -Allmusic-'s son seems to be the closet that I can relate to in terms of being multi-facted and multi-talented across a number of disciplines. It may well be worth a pm.</p>

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<p>Thanks, I’ll do that.</p>

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<p>I think it’s a close call between Harvard and Yale, at least for an instrumentalist who is chosing between these two great schools - much going on musically at Harvard - some prestigious student conducting opportunities in particular, and lots of teachers to study with in the Boston area, including at NEC. Voice may be another thing altogether.<br>
There are some very talented undergrad composers at Yale - isn’t there also a composition faculty in the Music Department at Yale College?</p>

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<p>My S is on his way to Harvard right now, as they are paying him to visit. About those conducting opportunities - is there someone he could talk to about that? That is another dream of his.</p>

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<p>Thanks to all. I don’t post much, but all of you on CC have been fantastic. And this forum in partiular is so encouraging. Being homeschooled, we had no idea where my son would be accepted. He only did two AP on-line classes in his junior year (Eng & USHistory), and studied for AP Music Theory on his own. The rest (Math, Science, foreign language) was all with books at home with mom and dad. His SAT wasn’t stellar like some people think you have to have.</p>

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<p>You might suggest that he contact the conductor for BachSoc. You can find his name on the website. They elect a conductor each year.
Boston has a good new music scene. In summers NEC runs a new music program for performers and composers, SICPP (Summer Institute for Performance Practice, aka Sick Puppy), which many Harvard students (and others) attend. Piano faculty at NEC who do a lot of new music are Drury and Brubaker. Drury runs SICPP. This summer, the guest composer is from Harvard, Chaya Chernowin - supposed to be great.
Yale also has a summer new music workshop for college-age composers and a handful of performers, Norfolk New Music Workshop. Bang on a Can was started by Yale composers; it also has a summer festival for college age composers and performers (must be over 21).</p>

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<p>About the Yale situation with lessons for credit: it is an auditioned situation which is similar to auditioning at conservatories where you might not get the studio you asked for. It is important to contact faculty in advance and find out if you are likely to be accepted for lessons for credit into the studio you are interested in. </p>

<p>It may be true that no composer has been accepted to the B.A./M.M. degree in eons. I actually don’t know, but I do know a composer who was just accepted to the M.M. in composition at the Yale SOM who completed four years of the undergraduate B.A. at Yale. I think she could be a typical example of someone who has created a conservatory path within Yale–she is a pianist who successfully auditioned for lessons for credit and for chamber ensemble. She is also an oboist in the Yale Symphony. She was able to keep up both instruments. Her compositions have been premiered by the Yale Symphony and by many of the residential college orchestras and ensembles. As conducting was raised, I would like to add that there are numerous conducting and assistant conducting opportunites in the various orchestras at Yale. Undergraduates can audition to take conducting classes at the School of Music.</p>

<p>Heleta, thanks for that tip about NEC and the checked box. I think that is really sound advice.</p>

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<p>It might be good to also look at distribution and major requirements at these schools. Our daughter preferred fewer distribution requirements, and Harvard has 8 or 9 courses (which she is enjoying a lot) versus I believe, 12 at Yale. This also means that she can take more classes in her music concentration than she would have at Yale. She loves studying 20th and 21st century music and I can see her headed toward a focus on that in her studies.</p>

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<p>ps also, some semesters students at Yale take 5 courses, and at Harvard students take 4 all semesters (to graduate, some actually request to take more).</p>

<p>I personally think that whatever path students might take, musicians and others who are in the arts and humanities (and maybe other areas, too) might want to savor their education and even take longer, if allowed, rather than doing things in an accelerated fashion! There is a section in the Harvard handbook that says music students may take 5 years to finish undergrad. This could be expensive, but seems like a good arrangement for some who are practicing many hours a day.</p>