<p>All of what catty says is true, but I don't think any reasonable person would look at the undergraduate housing systems at Harvard and Stanford and fail to give the advantage to Harvard (assuming that it is serious about reducing overcrowding due to overenrollment). That doesn't mean that Harvard's system -- or Harvard -- works better for everyone. There are lots of factors, most of them unknowable when you make this decision. But Harvard's housing system is a great strength of Harvard College, and an integral part of the special undergraduate experience Harvard offers. Stanford's more conventional housing system is OK, and doesn't detract from the special undergraduate experience Stanford offers.</p>
<p>Cgarrett, my S's a grad student in engineering at Stanford. He's deliriously happy there. From everything he's told me about his experience so far, I can't imagine he could have found a better fit for his research interests--and engineering in general--than Stanford. I'm amazed at the incredible things those Stanford engineers are doing. Having the Silicon Valley nearby really does make a difference. (He's even had a "dream job" offer already for post-PhD, and he's only a first year. And turned down a terrific offer in industry for this summer.) OTOH, his wonderful PI got his doctorate from... Harvard. (haha)</p>
<p>That said, a couple of years ago he was accepted at a number of top programs for summer research. One of those schools was Harvard. The opportunity was amazing, and the personal attention and encouragement he received from both his prospective research prof and the college was astounding... really noticably head and shoulders above his other very good offers (one of which shall remain nameless but its initial is Princeton). He was very disappointed to have to turn Harvard down, in favor of a rather unique opportunity at... Stanford. (haha)</p>
<p>He loves the Cardinal community, both the profs and the students. He's involved in an EC with some undergrads and also had some UGs in a few of his grad classes. He's been uniformly impressed with all the UGs he's met. Wide-ranging interests, and the kids tend to be extraordinarily talented and extraordinarily laid-back, humble, and genuinely friendly. Stanford does have a reputation for "ducks," though--placidly swimming along the water's surface while paddling furiously below. Classes are very challenging, probably as challenging as can be found anywhere, but the grading may be a tad more lenient than comparable schools. (S has not made up his mind about this last; he suspects the reputation for grade inflation may be unfairly influenced by the academic strength of the students.)</p>
<p>Oh. Did I mention that Silicon Valley is close by? </p>
<p>Some things he really really likes so far: the sports scene on campus and the fact that he can jog year-round on one of the prettiest campuses in the country; the international presence on campus; the entrepreneurial spirit that seems to infuse everything; the opportunity to hear well-known and influential thinkers from many fields, both on campus and through his dept.; the school runs like butter.</p>
<p>Some things he doesn't like so much: ... ::scratches head:: ... Oh, yeah. Sky-high gas prices. No cheap grocery stores near campus. (Add to things he likes: Plenty of free food opps on campus for poor grad students :) )</p>
<p>A word about the weather, though. He was surprised that January into February was cold, gray, and rainy. Palo Alto is generally pretty mild compared to Boston, but it's not LA (where he went UG). And knowing my S, a kid who loves a lot about the east coast, I think he would be miserable living through a full winter in the northeast. YMMV.</p>
<p>Good luck to your D on a tough decision. Since she's visited both, if she "feels" a preference, I'd suggest she go with her gut and remember, despite the old bromide, you really can go home again (for grad school).</p>
<p>WOW....thank you all for such amazing insights.....I have sent D copies of every response! I will keep you all posted with what she decides......if nothing else, it will be interesting....and I agree wholeheartedly that both options are excellent....what would REALLY clinch it is if one of them said "oh, and we'll give you a scholarship, too!!!" (in my dreams..... :D)</p>
<p>Mudder's_Mudder- "A word about the weather, though. He was surprised that January into February was cold, gray, and rainy."</p>
<p>In So Cal it comes later; we call it either "May grey" or "June gloom".....and sometimes both! I'm surprised he missed it in L.A.</p>
<p>^^Haha, cgarrett, yeah, he spent a summer in LA; and you're right! But I'll just say he actually purchased a good umbrella for Palo Alto. And gloves. Which he used. :D</p>
<p>The campuses are very different (I apologize if you said she'd visited, didn't read the entire thread!)...IMO, Stanford's campus WAY outdoes Harvard's. I love Boston, but the Harvard is just too...compacted for me. There are always tourists milling around, since it's so easy to access, and tour-groups take up the entire lawn on many days (along with the video-recording parents :P). Stanford is more peaceful, the athletic tradition/spirit is strong, and the degree is among the best, if not THE best, one west coast.</p>
<p>Best of luck in your decision though, either school is (obviously ;)) great!</p>
<p>First of all, congratulations to the OP and her D. There are no wrong doors in this situation and it is a blessing to have such a choice to make. </p>
<p>My DD had to make the same choice last year, visited both S and H (and Y) in April, and faced the toughest decision of her life. As parents, we chose to put on our supportive hats to help her make the most difficult decision she had to make in her life. She made a list of factors that were important to her (housing, weather, location, academics, etc.) to compare each school. Ultimately, her decision was based on the "feel" factor. I do want to emphasize that it was <strong>her</strong> decision. I did have a preference, which I never revealed to her as I wanted her to make her own decision (and my preference did not turn out to be the school that she chose!)</p>
<p>Let me say that in regards to the self-segregation issue, DD found that there was more self segregation at Harvard (and given that we are a multi-ethnic family, this was a major consideration for her). She also liked the Stanford campus and really liked the fact that it was close to San Fran, her favorite city. </p>
<p>Ultimately, she chose H. Again, it was based on "feel". My advice: have your DD visit both campuses, spend time in classes, mingle with the students and get a "feel" to determine which one better matches her personality and interests. </p>
<p>Again, congratulations to both of you and good luck in making a decision.</p>
<p>I don't think that housing is something Harvard can brag about...</p>
<p>Stanford is not segregated - there's plenty of unsegregated housing, and everyone is invited to the "theme houses" for parties.</p>
<p>If you want your D to end up in California, Stanford is a better choice. Also, the students generally seem to be much happier there, though it could be part of the "duck facade".</p>
<p>As a Californian, you/she may not find Stanford to be as beautiful as others from out of state do. Rather, it has a lot of the typical beige Spanish-style(?) architecture found in California, with featureless landscaping (which is why some describe it as resembling "Taco Bell Headquarters.")</p>
<p>Also, the weather is not like Southern California. It is cold and rainy in the winter. One year, when we lived about 20 miles from the Stanford campus, it rained 41 days in a row. Also, as others have said, Palo Alto is not an exciting city (and neither is the surrounding Silicon Valley area).</p>
<p>(Full disclosure: I have a D at Harvard, who was not at all interested in attending Stanford)
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<p>^ Heh heh...I said the same thing, but you'll have to discount my observations since I'm a Berkeley guy. ;)</p>
<p>Bay, I am from out of state, and I've written many times (in the context of arguing against relying too much on visits) that I disliked how Stanford looks so much that I never would have gone there if I had visited first. It's a great university, though, despite its golf course/mall aesthetic. And after I had been there a while, the campus acquired emotional resonance for me notwithstanding the banality.</p>
<p>Harvard and Berkleley are two of my favorite campuses anywhere, and my degrees are from Yale and Stanford. Campuses aren't everything.</p>
<p>D had the same choice to make a few years ago, and Stanford was never in the running. She was born and raised in SoCal, but already had it in her head that Boston was THE place to go to college. She liked Stanford well enough, but she would have picked it only if none of the Boston schools had accepted her.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>I don't think that housing is something Harvard can brag about...<<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>Well, in Harvard housing they have different things to brag about. There you are surrounded by history. In D's case she lived in the same freshman dorm that both John Adams and John Quincy Adams did, and for her last three years she has lived in the same House that John Kennedy did.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>She couldn't get to the admit weekend at Harvard, so she visited for a day and a half a week earlier. Thanks to the extraordinary kindness of several Harvard CC parents (Marite, Coureur, BanditTX), who, in response to my desperate plea for someone to please talk to my D who had found herself abandoned by her overly busy host, called their children, who essentially dropped everything to come to my D's rescue. (sorry for the cumbersome sentence) It was probably that experience more than anything that sealed the deal.<<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>D remembers this incident fondly. When I called her roommates (D herself was out at the moment), they were horrified that a pre-frosh might be left abandoned. As I knew they would, the girls of Winthrop House immediately swung into action to put right that misfortune and make her feel welcome. I'm glad it helped seal the deal. People on CC love to bash Harvard, but I know from experience they've got a lot of great kids there. We had five of them sleeping on our couches and floors over the recent Spring Break and it was great.</p>
<p>^ I'm following this thread closely as my D is also accepted at H and S. Coureur, your post got my attention - what wonderful young people! In the end, it's the culture and spirit of the institution, not the weather or architecture, imo.</p>
<p>I don't think there is all that much Harvard bashing. I think it appears that way because it is important for students (and parents) to realize that it isn't the ONLY top academic institution in the country and is not without flaws.
There are many reasons for a student to pick Harvard, but it is not the perfect place for everyone just because it is "Harvard".</p>
<p>She really needs to go to the Admitted Students weekend before she makes her final decision. That did it for my daughter. She loves Harvard. Oh, and her house master is a Nobel Prize winner. The kids call him 'Jim'.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>I don't think there is all that much Harvard bashing. I think it appears that way because it is important for students (and parents) to realize that it isn't the ONLY top academic institution in the country and is not without flaws.<<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>And apparently the standard way to make students (and parents) realize this is to bash Harvard.</p>
<p>Of course Harvard has flaws. Every school does. But what is the difference between constantly harping on a school's flaws and bashing it? If you think there isn't all that much Harvard-bashing then you haven't been paying attention. Harvard bashing threads and posts are legion. Even threads on the Parents forum that start out praising H for one reason or another almost always quickly pick up a Harvard-hater or two.</p>
<p>Maybe I haven't paid attention, but I know I don't bash Harvard. I think a lot of schools get bashed. Penn and Cornell do for sure as being the "lesser Ivys". It's the internet. What do you expect?
I am not a fan of SMU or Baylor. That's my opinion. Is that "bashing" them?</p>
<p>I have no problem with posts highlighting Harvard problems. Every school has them and knowing about the problems of a school before your decision is made is only prudent.</p>
<p>The posts that I find "Harvard bashing" are ones that make sweeping generalities like--of course, no one would want to go to H, because the kids there are cutthroat and a grind; or we all know that all the kids at Harvard are mean, snooty and full of themselves. These are all statements that I know aren't true.</p>
<p>Glad you're not a Harvard basher, MOWC...</p>
<p>I will ask my son to read this thread, there are a lot helpful hints. He has hard time to make decision between Harvard and Stanford plus Princeton. I hope he will choose Harvard.</p>