<p>I'd say that the lack of good advising is a negative at Harvard too. Your mileage may vary.</p>
<p>Lack of good undergraduate advising was a problem for my sister over 25 years ago. The administration was always acknowledging it and promising to do something about it. When I started going to information sessions with my kids a few years ago, I went to one that featured a Stanford senior and a recent grad, and when someone asked them what the worst thing about Stanford was, they both said the advising. </p>
<p>I don't get how this could remain unfixable for so long.</p>
<p>I had great advising in college. My kids' advising isn't superwonderful, but no one at their college ever thinks it's awful enough to be worth complaining about. It just can't be THAT hard to get it OK, if not perfect.</p>
<p>The 3 negatives that seem to come up time and again about Harvard are the advising, the competition, and the social scene. So I asked my Harvard freshman D about each.</p>
<p>With respect to advising, she said that she has 3 advisors assigned to her: A Proctor who lives in the same dorm building (and is also a Teaching Fellow), an Academic Advisor who is an upper class house-master (hers is a Harvard law grad) and has met with her 2 times to arrange her schedule, and a Peer Advising Fellow who is a junior or senior who has received training in advising. My D actually felt like it was more than she needed.</p>
<p>I asked her if the environment felt competitive. She responded "not at all." (Caveat: My D is an extremely competitive person and thrives on competition. "Laid back" is not her style.)</p>
<p>The social scene....as a mother, I only wish I could tone it DOWN a bit. lol
From what I have heard from her, there is not enough time in the day/week/semester to attend all of the social events she is interested in. A lack of social activities and fun, has never been an issue for her at Harvard.</p>
<p>Of course, others' experiences will vary.</p>
<p>I also have a nephew who recently graduated from Stanford. I do not know the details of his experience there, but his family conveyed that he loved it.</p>
<p>Oh! I can't believe the time you've all taken to give such thoughtful answers! I need to go back and finish reading them (and sending them to D), but before the thread goes another 3 pages, I just wanted you all to know I'm listening.</p>
<p>I believe D is pretty easy-going despite her accomplishments. She works hard, but doesn't usually seem stressed. For this reason I think she would fit at Stanford. </p>
<p>On the other hand, she has been at this east coast boarding school for two years, and at the end of her first year there, ran for (to which I said "It's nice you're willing to take that chance [of losing...]"), and she then won the presidency of her senior class (Me: "I thought you said you have no friends there.")</p>
<p>On the other hand, Stanford would mean less traveling.</p>
<p>However, we have left it entirely up to her (and being the smart parents we are, honestly, we don't want to be responsible if she hates it...)</p>
<p>On the other hand, my sister said "But Harvard is HARVARD." </p>
<p>It will be interesting to see which she chooses because she usually makes good (not always the same as mine!) decisions. If I were her, I really don't know.....</p>
<p>One of the nice things is that if you go to one and do well, you can probably go to the other for grad school, as many of us above can attest :). Do remember, however, that she will not have the option of transferring to Harvard if she doesn't like Stanford, while the door is still open the other way...<a href="http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2008/4/2/roomToRemainForTransfers%5B/url%5D">http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2008/4/2/roomToRemainForTransfers</a></p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>...you can probably go to the other for grad school,<<</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>I'd say that "probably" is a little strong. Graduate admissions to either school are just as competitive, if not more so, than undergrad admissions. I wince every time I hear someone say "Forget going about Harvard (or Stanford) for undergrad. You can always go there for grad school." Yeah, right "always." If you want to attend Stanford (or Harvard) you better take the bird in hand. Lightning may not strike twice.</p>
<p>Harvard was in the process of changing their distribution requirements last year along with the calendar. The calendar got changed, but I think they are still working on the requirements. In all likelihood it will be less onerous than it is now. I remember a million years ago that a friend of mine was taking golf for credit at Stanford. That's not in the cards at Harvard! Harvard you only have to take four courses a year. I usually ended up taking five and often auditing a sixth. I really didn't think workload was strenuous at all, though it varies by major.</p>
<p>No golf for credit at Harvard ... I was quite surprised when I learned that they offer no physical education courses for credit.</p>
<p>You can still get golf credit at Stanford. Actually, a friend of my son managed to fail it - the passing apparently depended on attendance in the one class when the attendance was checked, and he missed that one... But that credit (as all the other "fun" credits) do not replace the academic credits you need to graduate...</p>
<p>Thank you all for sharing your thought with us.</p>
<p>whylion, you are right. I will not send him to the Standford admit weekend, he visited Stanford before. I want to send him to Harvard admit weekend, but he has school event at that weekend. He hasn't visited Harvard.
He went to a college for finialist weekend, totally changed him. He likes this college now. College weekend really attracts students.</p>
<p>Has anyone mentioned that Stanford is on a quarter system and Harvard semesters? This can be a very big deal when lining up schedules with family, friends, internships. It also makes the workload at Stanford greater and more intense.</p>
<p>Those stories about Stanford being more laid back is far from true. Just the required credits to graduate is greater.</p>
<p>You have to visit. Mine are legacies at Harvard and hated it. One is at Stanford and one at a LAC.
They hated Harvard and the NERDS, of which there are many.</p>
<p>Harvard doesn't have a very developed overseas study program if that is an interest.</p>
<p>Stanford is far superior in engineering, if that is a possibility. </p>
<p>There are many athletic pursuits. My children would rather take a ski trip or bike ride than visit a bar or club in Boston. I have never heard a complaint about Palo Alto. It is 20 mins. by car in the afternoon to San Fran if you know the correct roads. The Bart train, which many prefer, is 30 minutes.</p>
<p>Stanford is research oriented. If you are not interested in research, it may not be the best choice.</p>
<p>You are deciding between a Mercedes and BMW.</p>
<p>I'll add one thing, although I don't know how true it remains now. In the past, Stanford was a place where a student really had to be a self-starter to do well and to take advantage of it. It was entirely possible, and socially acceptable, to cruise along without really pushing yourself, and essentially to major in social relationships. My sister did that. It cost her an extra semester of college to graduate, and a GPA she will never boast about, but she has had a wonderful career since then (based in part on all those social relationships). At the same time, I saw other kids really dive into the academic opportunities, and there was no question that Stanford delivered for them.</p>
<p>I don't think it's possible, as a practical matter, to cruise at Harvard. Not that one couldn't do it, more like it just isn't done. The spirit of the place pushes students to challenge themselves -- everyone is doing it, so you might as well, too.</p>
<p>If school trade-offs are a wash (flip of a coin), then it's Boston vs Palo Alto. My bias would be Boston (I grew up in Calif).</p>
<p>I don't see how you can possibly choose Harvard without visiting it. It is not a campus or city that appeals to everyone. I think a visit is essential here- even if it is midweek.</p>
<p>
[quote]
There are many athletic pursuits. My children would rather take a ski trip or bike ride than visit a bar or club in Boston.
[/quote]
And I'd rather hike in Vermont, bike at the Cape, or go for a row on the river. :)</p>
<p>The school calendar was mentioned by our tour guide as a possible disadvantage at Stanford. Very late start, so late start on summer internships, but some sort of interesting September mini-term as I recall? Correct me if I'm wrong!</p>
<p>My legacy son liked Harvard a lot more after the admitted students weekend, but it wasn't nerdy enough for him. That's why he's at Carnegie Mellon!</p>
<p>"I don't think it's possible, as a practical matter, to cruise at Harvard. Not that one couldn't do it, more like it just isn't done."</p>
<p>Oh, I know people who do it. But what's more common is for a student to care passionately about one thing and coast on everything else. They're all about music, and academics are just a day job; or they're all about physics, and they coast in their other courses; etc. So in any given class or activity, you'll interact with some people who aren't pushing themselves.</p>
<p>I met someone who attended Harvard undergrad and went to Stanford for gradschool. He honestly didn't feel that Stanford was even remotely as good as Harvard.</p>
<p>Moreover, No school in the US has the cache of Harvard....None.... Boston is a LOT more interesting and has a lot more to do than Palo Alto. I would take Harvard in a heartbeat.</p>
<p>Good idea to visit Harvard. My son will contact Harvard.</p>
<p>
[quote]
In the past, Stanford was a place where a student really had to be a self-starter to do well and to take advantage of it.
[quote]
</p>
<p>I think this must have changed. They made a lot of effort in the last decade or so to put much more emphasis on the undergraduates.</p>
<p>It might be still possible to "cruise", but it is by no means the "default mode"...</p>
<p>
[quote]
They hated Harvard and the NERDS, of which there are many
[/quote]
</p>
<p>lol Are there nerds at Harvard? From what I have heard and seen, "yes." But why shouldn't there be? Are there no nerds at Stanford? </p>
<p>Did your kids attend the admitted students weekend and still feel it was too nerdy? Or did they just visit the campus in the summer and see all the Harvard-wannabe summer school kids?</p>
<p>A personal anecdote:</p>
<p>Our local H alums held a reception for the local admittees, which we attended with our D. When we approached the banquet room, my heart skipped a beat because the view from the entry was a large group of extremely nerdy looking kids sitting in the corner of the room with their families, long faces, and not saying a word.</p>
<p>When we entered the room, however, to my relief we saw the bulk of the crowd standing, mingling, talking, and it felt very comfortable.</p>
<p>I guess if you "hate" nerds, then you certainly should not choose Harvard. But it does not appear to be the dominant culture there.</p>