Harvard/Yale Law

Graduate School Law School
1

<p>I'm a freshman in college, and already have my sights set on Harvard/Yale law.</p>

<p>My question is, do I have a shot at it? I go to a very competitive college (Reed), where the average high school GPA of accepted students is 3.9. However, unlike a lot of other colleges, Reed has no grade inflation. My GPA is lower than it would be if I attended a college like Harvard or Yale. My question is, does Harvard/Yale law school know or care about this? Will they take into account the lack of grade inflation at my college when looking at my application? Basically, do I have a chance at getting in?</p>

2

<p>They will know about the different schools, but honestly, it's silly to even think about this now. It's OK to think about law school, but it will not help you to think about particular schools. Especially don't tell your peers about it.</p>

3

<p>what's your GPA?</p>

4

<p>it's going to depend more on your LSATs than anything. if you don't crack at least a 170 - which is hard to do - you're not getting into HYS unless you're a minority</p>

5

<p>Despite the grade deflation at Reed, I assure you that many people still graduate with excellent GPAs, which for H/Y means the 3.8+ range. If you think you have what it takes for those schools, the grade deflation shouldn't stop you. Basically what I'm saying is that the top schools accept the top students, so they don't have to give leeway to anyone.</p>

<p>It's kind of like asking, would a college prefer an applicant with an AP B or an honors A? The answer is that Harvard and Yale have plenty of AP A students to choose from.</p>

6

<p>To a certain extent, it's true there are very good students who graduate from Reed. But even compared to other extremely good schools, there aren't many. In the past 23 years, there have been only 6 people who graduated with a GPA of 4.0. That's 3/11500 students that get a perfect GPA. I guarantee you that schools like Harvard and Yale have a much higher percentage of students with 4.0 GPA than that. Now, obviously, Harvard law doesn't just accept people with perfect GPAs, but I think it demonstrates that Reed has harsher grading than most other really good schools that Harvard Law accepts applications from. It is quite possible that Harvard Law ignores that, and thus accepts mostly from schools that are extremely good schools but have grade inflation. But I don't think it's fair to say that the grades have equal significance even between really good schools when you consider grade inflation.</p>

7

<p>While Reed isn't on the list I compiled, Harvard and Yale are hardly paragons of grade inflation.</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/law-school/266240-question-about-top-law-schools.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/law-school/266240-question-about-top-law-schools.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

8

<p>Don't worry about it. HLS doesn't only take people from extremely good schools. They also take good students from terrible schools. They will know if you are a top student at Reed. But again, you shouldn't even be thinking about specific law schools now. Just get good grades, and then see how you do on the LSAT. Worry about this after that.</p>

9

<p>I honestly don't know much about grade inflation at Harvard or Yale. However, my mom does teach at Harvard. I handed one of my essays to one of her coworkers for editing, and a paper that would have been an A for her at Harvard earned me a B- at Reed.</p>

10

<p>You have just successfully proved that there is one professor at Reed who grades more strictly than one professor at Harvard.</p>

11

<p>So what? </p>

<p>Some of us went to top colleges and in my case have kids who went to top colleges. So, when you come on here and post that </p>

<p>
[quote]
My GPA is lower than it would be if I attended a college like Harvard or Yale.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>..we get a little annoyed. This happens ALL the time on this site. Somehow all those kids who got 2300+ SAT scores, high school gpa's above 4.0 and 5s on 6 AP scores in subjects like chem, BC calc, physics C, etc. while excelling at the state and national level in 2 ECs go off to Harvard and become students who don't study at all and still graduate with a 4.0. (Do you have a clue how FEW Harvard students get 4.0s?) </p>

<p>The 25th percentile for SAT scores at Harvard is HIGHER than the 75th percentile for SAT scores at Reed. So, assuming the two schools used exactly the same grading scale, would it really be that surprising that more Harvard students earned a 4.0? Additionally, Reed has a rep for admitting kids with high SATs and mediocre high school grades. So, Harvard kids probably had better high school grades than Reed kids too. </p>

<p>Look, Reed is a fine college. As stacy pointed out in the other thread, the LSDAS report will tell each law school you apply to how your gpa compares to other Reed students who are also applying. So, if you're the <em>star</em> of your class at Reed, every law school will know that. </p>

<p>Moreover, Reed has a full time pre-law adviser who may be able to give you grids showing how Reed students did in the application process. You'll get much better advice on how to deal with Reed's alleged grade deflation from that adviser than anyone on this site. </p>

<p>Many times, BTW, grades are dependent on context. So, if a prof at Reed asked that your essay do certain things and yours didn't, you might get a B- because you fail to answer the question. Someone who reads it without knowing what the question to be answered / assignment was might give it a better grade. Or, every school has some teachers who are easy graders. Maybe your mom's co-worker is such a grader. </p>

<p>But the best advice I can give you is to heed that old Serenity Prayer. There are certain things that are beyond your control. How Harvard and Yale Law will view your grades is one of those many things. Stop spending your energy whining about how "unfair" things MAY be at least two years from now when you may apply to law school, and focus on what you can control. That means get good grades, do some interesting ECs, build good relationships with profs, and study hard for the LSAT WHEN THE TIME COMES. Not now.</p>

12

<p>Short answer: no, they will not care Reed is hard. Their USnews ranks are effected by the numbers of students they admit so they will not give you much leeway. Yale will care-maybe, but Harvard is a numbers whore always unless you have done something amazing. Why is Stanford not on your short list?</p>

13

<p>so, in other words, ranking of school is not really that important unless you are coming from a very poorly ranked university?</p>

14

<p>I would actually say it's the inverse. The ranking of your undergraduate school does not matter unless you come from a university that is top ranked (HYPSM, a couple others), and even then it's only a very slight boost.</p>

15

<p>but is that very slight boost one that could get someone in over me if my stats are better than them? i'm just worried that could happen after equitably hard work</p>

16

<p>Why bother worrying about this? And even if someone with lower stats got in over you because of her school's rigor and reputation, those stats would almost certainly have to be only marginally lower, so it would make little real difference.</p>

17

<p>

In the 372-year history of Harvard, 5 people have graduated with a perfect GPA.</p>

18

<p>Wow, that's interesting ^^^</p>

<p>And I'll agree that for the most part, law schools aren't going to say "Oh, this student went to Reed so his GPA is really higher than it should be." As has been noted, they must report the LSAT and LSDAS GPA of each admitted student, and this will be what has an impact on student quality and ranking. If you're really smarter than your GPA may show, then you should prove it by demolishing the LSAT. And this is why the LSAT is given far more weight in the admission process than GPA.</p>

19

<p>You're at Reed. Unless you transfer to another school, or drop out, you will graduate from Reed.</p>

<p>I've never seen the point in stressing about whether you chose the right college. You picked Reed. It's a damn good school. I have a friend from elementary school who went there, received uninflated grades, and went from there to a Ph.D. program at a flagship state university. He made millions as a founder of a company that later went public. Now he's the CEO of a start-up that has attracted about $100 million in venture capital.</p>

<p>I haven't bothered to ask him whether he regrets his choice of undergraduate schools. I suspect I already know the answer.</p>