<p>Neato, you have put it very succinctly! Attending SPS and enrolling at a good college are correlated, but there is not a causal connection, right?</p>
<p>So Pan’s idea is that these kids are “ivy material” anyway. SPS is just doing a good job identifying them at 9th or 10th grade, and that SPS hasn’t really done anything (useful or effective) to help them to be more successful in college admission. Well, there’s no way to prove it right or wrong, unless the 1/3 SPS students relive their lives in public high schools of varying qualities and see where they’d end up with. It does sound a pretty extreme view to me though. And neato, as “moderate” as you are, you agree with that 100%?</p>
<p>Are you suggesting that I am not moderate? lol</p>
<p>NO not in my dictionary. LOL</p>
<p>We are way off topic, but I’ll go ahead anyway. Am I a bomb thrower?</p>
<p>I wouldn’t go as far as to say that SPS, or any other great school, is irrelevant. All I am saying is that there is an undeniable correlation between Ivy matriculation and top prep schools. But one must be careful not to assume a causal relationship as well. Correlation just means that the two factors vary directly. It’s a fallacy that happens to drive me crazy, “false cause”. No matter how strong the correlation, a causal relationship has not proved but merely implied. Matriculation lists are the last thing that I look at in determining the “worth” of a school.</p>
<p>While I agree with the statement that “it’s the student not the school that gets admitted”, I don’t think the implication that the prep school has no influence is correct. My daughter was admitted to 3 of HYPSM (she didn’t apply to the other two) and several other top universities. She had a lot of things going for her besides an impending Andover diploma. However, I also know her friends from our public high school and they have similar hooks/backgrounds. No one has been accepted from here to most of the same schools in 5-10 years. </p>
<p>I can tell you the essay she wrote was stunning even to me. The skills were hers. The drive to succeed was hers. But the experiences behind that essay and the maturity she showed were greatly influenced by Andover. Add the fact that schools know an Andover alum can handle high pressure academics (I’ll guarantee you that’s important to MIT) and have already established independence - those are strong selling points.</p>
<p>Lastly, prep schools have varying levels of expertise in their college counseling offices and virtually all of them have more bandwidth/insight than your garden variety high school guidance counselors. When I hear some of the advice, or occasional lack thereof, that my daughter’s public school friends have received it makes me angry. Let’s face it, one thing that preps are selling is college matriculation. They invest in making it happen. Some can invest more than others.</p>
<p>Great students make great things happen. They will be successful wherever they go. But the precise type of success may be different or the path to get there may vary depending on the school they attend. It is not a given that all outcomes will be the same regardless of the steps they take.</p>
<p>Great post, Padre13!</p>
<p>It’s funny that you mentioned the essay, Padre. I have a friend who is an adcom at a selective LAC and he said that he could separate the prep school essays from the publics hands down.</p>
<p>These kids, whether they are “ivy material” going into prep school or not, are certainly cultivate at these schools and the schools do an amazing job of drawing out the potential of the child. This is why our family is pursuing it. Perhaps this potential is one of the things that the admissions committees are looking for? Will this child thrive here? It may be that qualities that the prep school are looking for are the same that the ivies are looking for. </p>
<p>The prep schools are very. well. stocked. ponds!</p>
<p>Toombs, what I meant by the larger pool, is that a school with double the population, will have more kids with hooks, by default, thus sending larger numbers to the ivies. Having said that, Exeter has had more time to attract urm’s, which have a leg up on ivy admissions from boarding schools, all other factors being equal (grades, scores, non-legacy, non-development status), so that contributes to its ivy numbers as well. In terms of its up to the individual kid – what I meant was that you are comparing two really great tier one schools. Its not a situation of school A will send x number to HYP and school B will send y number. It depends on individual kids in that year.
As to why one would send a kid to boarding school, I dont really believe its for college admission, but for the great learning, life long friends, etc. All these schools do a great job in college admissions, with their close relationships to adcoms, expert advice, etc., just dont expect it to be a straight shot at the ivies. They also give a huge leg up to the middle level student, since colleges know the type of education the schools give, and really want the bs students. It was shocking to me when looking at colleges with my older child, how many had developed mandatory freshman seminars that teach how to be a college student (do research, write papers, etc.) Those are skills that come naturally to BS students, and colleges know that.</p>
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<p>Padre, I’m guessing your daughter had a real hook. The only kids I’ve seen accepted at 3 HYPSM schools are URMs, athletes (offered a spot anyway), development and the one or two kids that truly stand out at a top prep school for academics in the stratosphere with major national awards.</p>
<p>If this is the case I think it’s important to spell it out. Otherwise the myth continues.</p>
<p>PADRE says:</p>
<p>“Lastly, prep schools have varying levels of expertise in their college counseling offices and virtually all of them have more bandwidth/insight than your garden variety high school guidance counselors. When I hear some of the advice, or occasional lack thereof, that my daughter’s public school friends have received it makes me angry.”</p>
<p>Having had children be graduated from both boarding and public schools, I was also struck and angered by the incompetence of the college guidance function in the public system. I’m not talking about the problems associated with too many kids per counselor; that’s understandable. Instead, the sheer inexperience and poor written and verbal skills of the counselor were frightening. If I were a top University or College and had met the counselor who “guided” our child, I would have scribbled a note in my little black book that said “be careful of any kids coming from this school.”</p>
<p>I don’t know and maybe it’s just me but isn’t the point of picking a college all about what the student wants for the next fours years like: size of campus, academics that fit, location, cost … and not just prestige. My parents are pretty much equals in their careers and have the exact same careers and one went to H and one didn’t for undergraduate then both went on to post graduate degrees and so on.
I know many students apply around and have turned down an ivy for the school they really want to go to which is a decision made wholly on fit, good for them. That brings down ivy matriculation for that bs. It depends whether the bs values choice over choosing a name brand. I mean, do you pick starbucks (name brand) over peet’s or green mountain (choice) because someone tells you it’s better?
BS choice is much the same as college in that one should pick for fit now than possible better chance for college in four. The four years shouldn’t be all about “what college” but what we can fill our brains now and use later then pick a college. That’s what I’ve be taught. Not one upsmenship or whatever it’s called. Do you judge how well a bs college advisor does his job by the number or ivy matrics? I’ve got a lot to learn but I don’t know if I want to learn about college matriculation @ bs and I don’t think my parents do either. Hope this has made some sense! Just my two cents! 
Toombs: does your s want to wait on exeter too?</p>
<p>mhmm, no doubt that a NE BS is not a straight shot to the Ivies. Even the best of the BS’s only get about 30% of its grads in Ivy Schools/MIT/Stanford. Still, 30% is so, so, so much better than every day school in the USA , except a very precious few, that the select BS’s are an undeniable factor in helping some kids get into these elite schools. If you can elist this factor in your child’s favor, why not?</p>
<p>Sure, BS’s can help a child obtain “great learning, life long friends, etc.” But then so can many other schools. Right now, my son goes to the best private day school in our state. He is at the top of his class, scores in top 3 to 5 percentile in every standardized test he h takes and works amazingly hard in school, studying more than 5 and 6 hours a night. He is getting a great education. He is not alone in his school, however, with such drive, ability and acquired learning. Many of the other kids possess these same qualities. In this regard, four of the past five years this school has produced the most Nat. Merit Finalists in the state, sometimes doubling the number of the next nearest school. Still, every year for these past four or five years, this school has flopped miserably in its college placements, much to the angst of many parents. </p>
<p>I, for one, am not willing to go into that dark night of angst come the end of my son’s senior year. Therefore, my son and his parents are willing to forgo his “great learning, life long friends, etc.” at his current school for the same elements at a boarding school elsewhere PLUS the greater chance of enrolling into a highly selective school. Sorry, I’m convinced that elite boarding schools are better than elite day schools in at least one great way: they help kids get into the best colleges. If I weren’t so convinced, I clearly would not be sending my son to one of these elite BS this fall.</p>
<p>kentschoolie, I agree that prep school is not all about getting into college; but, as the name states, you are “prepping” at such school primarily to get into college. The college palcement rates for “prep” schools have been and always will be a main factor for attracting the best kids to that school, for beeter or for worse.</p>
<p>Does my son want to go to Exeter? Right now, he wants to go Hotchkiss because Hotchkiss wants him. If Exeter ever wants him too (which grows less likely with each passing day), then he will weigh that option carefully at such time.</p>
<p>toombs: Your son sounds like an awesome student. I don’t put anywhere near that effort in my homework but I have a wierd situation. All this makes me kinda nervous about next year–really this year with testing, interviews…I really want to find a school that’s right for me but maybe the schools will pick me for the wrong reasons, legacy and H graduate thinking I might follow in my father’s footstep and make their matrics to Ivy numbers good. I find myself really interested in what parents are saying here on CC but it’s making me STRESSED :[<br>
Hope he picks Hotchkiss!!!Go Bearcats!!!I’m love this school!!!Hope I have loads of admits and few wls:)</p>
<p>kentschoolie, from your posts, you sounds extremely bright and engaging. I am confident that many BS’s would love to have you as a student. </p>
<p>Stay cool but focused during the BS app process. You will do wonderfully. Good luck, and please let all on CC know which schools accept you (I’m betting that many will) and where you decide to go. Because you love Hotchkiss, I hope that Hotchkiss returns that love.</p>
<p>Whoops… make that “you sound”, not “you sounds”, of course. Kentschoolie, that wasn’t very “bright and engaging” by me. Sorry.</p>
<p>hmom,</p>
<p>Yes, my daughter does have a “real hook”, but you missed the point. This discussion wasn’t about “hooks” versus “non-hooks”, it’s about whether there is an admissions benefit based on “boarding school” vs. “public school” or “BS A” vs. “BS B”. I know other kids from our public school with “real hooks” and excellent credentials that don’t get into schools anywhere near that level. Contrary to popular belief being a URM, athlete, first generation, legacy, etc. is not an automatic pass into a top tier school. The admissions rates just go from incredibly small to extremely small.</p>
<p>I’m perplexed by this debate. Here we have a bunch of prep school parents arguing that there are no college admission benefits to advanced prep schools versus public schools or less selective private schools. When asked, therefore, why are they sending their kids to an expensive school the answer is inevitably something along the lines of, “It’s not for college matriculation, it’s for personal and intellectual development.” How could those properties not make them more attractive applicants? Do they think that leading colleges aren’t more interested in a group of more mature, independent and academically advanced kids? Do they think that those colleges don’t see it as a positive knowing that these kids can be successful in an academically challenging environment populated by similar students (in other words, the very type of environment they will be exposed to at Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Amherst, Harvey Mudd, et al)?</p>
<p>I know that this isn’t related to the topic, but I and am sure a lot of other users look on this thread for waitlist information, could someone please start another thread?</p>