<p>If the finance student has been engaged in a research project and/or has been required to make presentations before a class or other group (as I believe is common), the finance student has acquired skills that are transferable to many different fields. </p>
<p>I have undergraduate degrees in both history and (later, from a different university) biochemistry. I did a lot more reading and writing as a history student, but the focused reading, research, writing and public presentations required as a biochemistry student developed general “problem solving skills”.</p>
<p>My son is a computer science student. As such, he does original independent research, has written sections of published papers, gives presentations on a regular basis and works with teams that include other undergraduates, graduate students and faculty. I believe the skills he is developing are more generally useful than those learned by many liberal arts students.</p>
<p>I don’t know what my D is doing, she graduated from college & got on a plane the next morning for a trip to the Canadian Rockies! We brought all her stuff home & piled it up in the barn. When I asked her if she was going to close out her college bank account, she said no, she wasn’t going to do that yet. So, no job & we don’t know her plans & I am sure we aren’t the only parents in this situation! </p>
<p>If she doesn’t find something, or she finds something that pays very little, we would like her to be our dependent for 2009 so we can take the $2500.00 Tax Credit! H & I are certainly willing to pay her tax liability just so we can have her as a dependent & take the American Opportunity Tax Credit.</p>
<p>Has anyone mentioned Peace Corps? (what I did with an English degree, and what H did with a History degree). There many church/charitable organizations, some in US, some outside, that will take volunteers for a year or two. (Work in Central or South America and add “Spanish Speaker” to your resume). Teach ESL overseas. Being young, single, and able to travel is an asset. These experiences can be personally enriching, if low paying.</p>
<p>Some states/school districts have programs like Teach for America, only MUCH better paying. The district (usually inner-city) hires you full-time at their regular salary and pays for you to work on your masters/teaching certificate. In my local district, if you don’t want to commit to staying with the district for 2 years, you can pay for your own grad school. The deal is that you have to be working on the masters while you are teaching.</p>
<p>Many private schools will hire teachers without certificates. If your D can teach English AND Art, that could be a big plus for a small school. Low pay, but the experience counts. If the school is in an out-of-the-way place (saw a poster at S’s school: “Come teach in Alaska!”) that could make the experience more interesting. </p>
<p>All districts need subs. Some (usually inner city, small town, rural) don’t require certificates. Again, pay is low, but I do know a few people who make a living as subs.</p>
<p>Some LA grads I know found jobs as administrative assistants, or totally switched fields and went to nursing school or started pre-med programs.</p>
<p>I’d advise any students to make use of advice/resources at college career placement offices since they’ve already paid for these services. I agree that some kids are unrealistic. (I heard of a young lady who got an internship with a non-profit agency. She was doing clerical work and was really bored and annoyed --She thought she was going to be making the decisions on grant proposals!) Some kids don’t realize that “working your way up” involves starting at the bottom.</p>
<p>Times are hard, but there are possibilities. Keep working at it–good luck!</p>
<p>Mmm…my D with a liberal arts degree from an LAC had all of that, save the aspect of “graduate students,” because there were none. Now what particularly helped her secure her first job, besides stellar academic performance at a well-regarded school, was a double major, Government & Math, with demonstrated quantitative skills as well communication skills as validated by a 75-page major research paper plus contributions to published research papers.</p>
<p>Now, she also lucked out but part of success is hearing opportunity knock and then answering the door. She wound up being the bridesmaid for an internship between junior and senior years, losing out at least in part because of timing issues involving the length of her JYA program in Hungary. (Even <em>applying</em> to internships was a bit daunting because of the communications issues from Hungary.) But the organization was impressed with her and one of the people who had interviewed her told her of an annual job opening they had for newly minted grads and invited her to apply. She did and it worked out.</p>
<p>====</p>
<p>I would never disparage a History degree. It depends on the mind and the mindset of the person having it. For a lot of jobs, I’d prefer the broader outlook of someone with a degree in History to, say, someone with a degree in Finance. It depends on a lot of things. </p>
<p>Anecdotally, the Art majors seem to be having a real tough time right now and there appears to be a glut of English majors on the market at a time when changes in the publishing and newspaper industries are putting a lot of people who can write well into the job market.</p>
<p>TheDad, I read a cover letter this morning from someone who was otherwise wonderfully qualified for an editorial type role for which we are recruiting- I knocked the resume into the "no way’ pile because the letter was so poorly constructed.</p>
<p>New grads- learn to proof-read! Or get your mom to proof-read! Or your fourth grade teacher who taught you the difference between a verb and an adjective! The people reading your resume and cover letter are probably old fogies like me. You don’t have to be Jane Austen to get an entry level job in Investor Relations or Corporate Communications or Employee Communications or Media Relations (just to name four random functions for which an English major should be a shoe-in for a job.) Just write a succinct summary (three paragraphs- don’t carry on for three pages or I will delete your resume immediately) of why you’re interested in the job; make sure it is grammatical and the words are correctly spelled.</p>
Too true. My English major sister-in-law (graduated in 1980) drove a school bus for a while. She’s also worked at a very local paper, been a children’s librarian, taught nursery school, been a substitute teacher, taught at private school, and been a real-estate developer. My other English major sister-in-law did events for a performing arts center. (Basically taking care of all the arrangements for the visiting performers.)</p>
<p>TheDad, please note that I did not say “all” or even “most” liberal arts majors; I used the word “many”, on purpose. </p>
<p>As it happens, I agree with you about history vs finance undergraduate studies. I am no fan of undergraduate business degrees. That happened to be the example used by another poster to set up what I consider an inaccurate distinction between narrow technical experience and some undefined “general problem-solving” skills. I believe one can learn general skills even while concentrating on focused, defined problems.</p>
<p>An anecdote related to the business vs history subject. My nephew completed a business undergraduate degree a few months ago. He had a job lined up immediately upon graduation, so that part is good. The job requires a whole lot of driving, hours a day actually. He has become bored with music and radio, and mentioned last night, while at our house, that he was looking for some history books on CDs, so he could learn some history–because he “never had the opportunity while in school” (!!!). As I’m sure he knew, we have multiple shelves full of history courses on CD, so we sent him home with a large shopping bag full of the undergraduate education he somehow missed.</p>
<p>Midmo, I stand by my distinctions – but I also realize that it may have sounded as though I meant that finance majors weren’t as smart. I didn’t mean that at all. Some recruiters really want the knowledge base that comes with an undergraduate business degree. (M.B.A.s are a completely different matter.) </p>
<p>Most elite colleges don’t offer business as a major because they have a more liberal-arts-centric philosophy – and that never stops recruiters from hiring. The recruiters are more interested in writing, research, and analytical abilities that actual familiarity with the industry itself.</p>
<p>My point is not that finance majors (and that major was pulled out for an example only) can’t get jobs – oh, my, they can – but that some companies prefer the more general LAC education for the reasons I stated. The original question was why anyone would expect to get a job with a liberal arts education. I showed why they could.</p>
<p>I don’t see the black/white contrast some parents seem to believe exists between “narrow technical fields” and liberal arts majors. Engineering degrees require plenty of humanities and social science electives, and LAC’s require quantitative electives. I have never seen any difference in the “problem-solving” or “critical-thinking” skills between students who major in history, english, chemistry, finance, engineering, or anything else. A good university will help a student in any field develop critical thinking skills – I would argue that these skills are used just as much in science and technical fields as they are in the humanities and social sciences. There is no major where students are learning methods that are only “specific to the field and that adhere to the philosophies of [one’s] professors” and I definitely don’t agree that “liberal arts majors have been taught to problem-solve in a more general way.”</p>
<p>My college roommate was an architecture major in a studio-intensive program and went on to Harvard Law School. My husband teaches in a top engineering department and his strong students regularly go on to Harvard Law school, consulting firms, med schools, corporate marketing, TFA, etc., as well as grad school. My English professor friends tell me that their strongest writers are the engineering or pre-med students, not the English majors. I just do not see this technical/liberal arts split in skill sets or outcomes that others here seem to believe in. </p>
<p>The corporate recruiters who are posting here are naturally seeing more liberal arts majors as applicants – science and technical degrees lead to different sorts of career paths and those students are probably not applying for the general corporate positions being described; they may simply have better options.</p>
<p>Annroku, thanks for your thoughtful clarification. I was not drawing a contrast… just jumping to the defense of all the history/sociology/English majors out there. They are not doomed to a life of burger flipping, but they do need to develop a thoughtful answer to the question, “why did you choose to write your thesis on William Thackery” during an interview-- and that answer is probably not the same answer s/he would give the English Department Chair.</p>
<p>I see thousands of engineering and computer science resumes every year, even for jobs which are more oriented towards humanities types. There are lots of industries hit by outsourcing (a trend which has been a little obscured by the economy over the last 9 months but a real trend nonetheless) and there are lots of young college grads who majored in XYZ “practical” major, only to discover that those jobs had dried up during the years they were in college.</p>
<p>Which is why I think kids should study what they love as undergrads. All the while developing a plan for becoming financially independent within a reasonable amount of time after graduation. And being able to communicate in a thoughtful manner with prospective employers.</p>
<p>Hmm, sounds to me like an energetic HS graduate with the right kind of attitude, plus a terrific HS education, is the kind of person best qualified for you, blossom!
OK, I’m being a bit facetious—after all, I myself am financing a four-year, private LAC education for my English major D!</p>
<p>But what it does mean is that both you and Northstarmom are talking about character, which is not exclusive to college graduates.</p>
<p>"or, only to discover that those jobs had dried up during the years they were in college.</p>
<p>Which is why I think kids should study what they love as undergrads. All the while developing a plan for becoming financially independent within a reasonable amount of time after graduation. And being able to communicate in a thoughtful manner with prospective employers."</p>
<p>I agree. There typically are ways for motivated, creative thinkers to use their undergrad degrees to get decent jobs that they like. To me, that’s far better than majoring in something that one dislikes, and then spending much of one’s lifetime working in fields that one also dislikes. Too many people are gritting their teeth waiting for retirement in order to finally enjoy life.</p>
<p>Mousegray, HS grads don’t typically write an 80 page senior thesis (plus 20 pages of footnotes, appendices, and graphs) on Globalization for a poli sci degree. Or publish a piece of critical analysis in a history journal on why Wagner was an important figure in early 20th century German culture and how that impacted the rise of the Nazi party. Or annotate a catalogue on David Hockney’s early work, or even just write a paper comparing Henry Moore’s sculpture to the structure of the DNA double helix.</p>
<p>If you find such a HS let me know. Otherwise, I’ll stick to recruiting from colleges and universities.</p>
<p>I’ve known alum of prep schools like Andover and Exeter who in high school, wrote the kind of papers that blossom described. I also remember meeting one who while at prep schoo managed a school-based radio station that served the local community. I have been awed by the experiences that such prep school students got. That’s why some complained that Harvard was easy compared to their high school experiences.</p>
<p>Another idea for liberal arts grads struggling to get experience. My son took a class as a “post-baccalaureate student” at the local university (low tier) in an area of interest (more job oriented than anything offered at his LAC), while he was working a job in retail. His instructor provided the students with some networking opportunities that led to a paid internship for my son. His employer can’t hire him as a permanent employee right now due to the economy, but has extended the internship. S would love to work for this company, so will hang on as long as possible hoping things will turn around. If not, he will have some experience to help find the next job.</p>
<p>Besides placement offices, there is the need to be tenacious and to use any contacts you may have.</p>
<p>My DD just graduated and is applying to grad school for the 2010 school year, she wanted to either get a job in the vicinity of our home or to get a job in a particular city in another country in her chosen field</p>
<p>Last fall she found half a dozen references (profs & others with whom she had worked) who had connections in that city and she made a trek to visit and meet them all. She came home dejected about the possibilities of finding a job and getting a work visa. </p>
<p>This past week she emailed back to all those foreign connections and came up with a job offer in he best sub-area of her field she could have imagined, at a salary that will allow her to live on her own and with the offer including the help to get the visa. DD is flying high right now, and there was a real luck component, but also the tenacity to graciously stay in touch, update her CV by mentioning coursework she was taking in the spring that coordinated with the job she wanted and the polite checks showed the employer she is worth the hassle of the work permit. </p>
<p>So tell your DD not to be afraid to go back in again and again and make herself known in a positive way!</p>
<p>I think many college aged students need lessons in networking. They see it as going out, meeting people and asking for a job. Doesn’t work with most folks…in fact, turns them off. Ask them how they got to where they are. Ask them what kinds of skills are important. Ask them to describe the work they’re doing and what they like and don’t like. Make a positive impression and they’ll keep you in mind if they know of something. It takes patience though…and a long term view. That’s why it helps to start WAY before you graduate. But really, it’s never too late.</p>
<p>Just a quick note on the topic of government jobs - my neighbor is a secret service agent and he said they are hiring.
Another choice would be the military - good experience, good pay and then you get veteran’s benefits too!</p>
<p>Side note/update - hello to soozievt and TheDad - our daughters went through the college application process together many moons ago! My DD is in her second year at Cornell Law School, graduated from Georgetown U in 3 years. Is now a summer associate in NYC at an international law firm. When she graduates next year with her LLM and JD she is willing to go anywhere to work but would prefer NYC, London or China. This thread was quite interesting!</p>
<p>Well, that’s true. And I hope that the writers of such papers find work that lives up to their expectations. </p>
<p>Also, I can’t resist adding that those topics SOUND impressive at first glance, but it’s all in the content and originality of thinking. I’ve read enough academic journals to know that that’s a rare thing indeed.</p>