Our Daughter seems to be dropping out..of everything..slowly - Help please...

Parents Forum
1

<p>Long story, here's the extremely short version:</p>

<p>I work at a big Uni. My oldest step daughter, college class of 2014, started last fall at a nice small residential college, tuition free (thanks to my work and tuition exchange). Shes always had adjustment issues, even since little, so we were very pleased when things seemed to go well all 1st semester, and she got B's, and seemed to adjust. When she went back for spring semester, within 24 hours "the rug was pulled out" and she demanded to come home. We did our best to reason with her, support her, and keep her there for at least a few days. She showed up at home 2 days later (friend brought her). We "commuted" her 1.5 hr each way, everyday for a week and a half, until she made it 100% clear that she was not going back unless she could commute. She had no car, and no license, so she had to withdraw for the semester. (Officially a "leave of absence"). </p>

<p>Once home, we gave the ultimatum - get license, get car, get full-time job and save every penny if you think you are going to commute (silly, its 1.5 hr drive). She said OK, and with much prodding and help did these things. Shes banked about $1.5K, she needs a minimum of $2.5K cash to make it through next year. Shes constantly "sneaking" money from her paycheck rather than saving it, and has not at all lived up to her end of the "live at home" agreement (keep room decent, help out with specific chores - not a lot either). </p>

<p>Now her best friend (and probable reason she came home in the first place) has dropped out of (the local community) college, moved in with her boyfriend in a cheap apartment, and our daughter is hanging out there constantly. She's calling in to work, quit the good full time job for a different "summer" only job, and constantly threatens that shes "just moving out". If she does, her free-ride (tuition wise, and every other way) is over... </p>

<p>What to do? How to motivate? We are NOT trying to over-control, but we hesitate to say "fine, get out, see ya later", since once she does - well, its probably over for her. Shes not mature at all for her age (and she's young in her class) and has a tendency to make very very bad decisions (thinking only about the NOW not even a week into the future). I think she DOES need a kick in the reality pants, but I also worry a lot about the possible repercussions (i.e. flop-house apartment, pregnant, no future). We want her to go back, even if it's a silly commute situation. Or at least do SOMETHING - even if its community college to start with. She was in a GOOD program, at a good college for her major, getting good grades. She had (and still has) good friends there. She always has had a tendency to have only ONE friend though, and apparently when something happened back at college, she turned TOTALLY back to this one at home friend, and is emotionally stuck here.</p>

<p>Anyone have a similar experience? Ideas on how to handle this? Thanks...</p>

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<p>Sounds like a difficult situation…you’ve given her some rules to adbide by,she adhered for awhile,but now is doing what she wants…Perhaps a discussion about her friend and that friend’s situation,living with her BF, might leave her with nothing at some point,if friend get married,etc…How does she intend to support herself? Does she realize the costs of living on her own…best of luck</p>

3

<p>It’s a typical situation. It hurts, I know. They get something terrific handed to them on a silver platter and they spit on it. Not what they want.</p>

<p>To keep things in perspective, at age 18, there are young people fighting for our country, laying down their lives, getting married and becoming responsible parents, living on their own. Sadly, some at that age are also in jail, flophouse, living the low life. </p>

<p>The fact of the matter is, they are adults, legally, at age 18 and they can do what they please. Oh, yes, you can exert some controls on them by “bribing” and insisting on certain behavior in your home and in your life. But that is it. You lay down the conditions, and if they say, no, or do no after saying yes, you can’t force them at that age to do as you want. That is the brutal truth.</p>

<p>Keep communication lines open, be supportive, loving, but firm in terms of how you are going to spend your money and what you require for her to be in your house. She may not want that good college, as good as it is. Not for her at this time. Yeah, I know, it’s crazy, but it is her life. It does hurt, and I know exactly how you feel right now. But you have to understand that she is not you. </p>

<p>You have been so wonderful to her and it hurts me a bit to read how it was received. But leave it go. Just be kind to her and firm on the things where you have a right to make the conditions. Things like no cigarette smoking in your car or house. No overnight male guests in her room, etc. But you have to recognize that outside of your personal circle, you have no rights. She is her own person entitled to screw up her on life making her own mistakes. You can tell what you think, what you know, but what she does is not under your control.</p>

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<p>It is a pretty common problem, but your D definitely sounds like she has some underlying issues. Firm yes but make your expectations realistic and something that really gets at her issues. for example:</p>

<p>Somewhat different but here’s a story…a close friend sent her daughter away last year to college and kid went into a tailspin relatively early and ended up flunking out her second semester. Just lost her confidence, fled into bad company and pot/drinking and was home by March. Her parents did the same thing you have described…put limits–get job or register for community college; basic family chores; go to AA and therapy once a week. They told her failure to do these basic things and she would have to move out by summer. She failed to do all of them so she was kicked out and ended up living with a deadbeat friend for 2 months. Then she fought with friend, felt so bored and unhappy just smoking pot in dirty apartment and was desperate to move back home…but parents said…you now have only one month to demonstrate you will follow our rules and then out you go again. Well…one month of failure and tears but the parents were calm but firm…so she moved in with an adult family friend who put the same requirements on her…miracle…either because her parents stuck to their guns or because the family friend did not seem to offer the parental (I will always love you…) she did actually get a job, go to therapy and AA. After her summer job ends, she has promised to register at CC and continue with therapy. I think the reality kick in the pants worked because the simple rules were simple…parents did not insist that she go back to her college, did not ask for high rent, did not ask for anything other than 1) keep busy with school or work 2) keep room clean and 3) go to therapy. Why would anyone choose misery and uncertainty with a bunch of druggy friends when food and security could be had by meeting a really low bar.</p>

<p>Secretly all the other family friends including us are available to offer her a safe haven if she messes up again but following the same requirements. I think the embarrassment of failing with a family friend was worse than at home and she finally snapped out of her lethargy. The therapy and AA seem to keep her drug/alchohol free so far. She seems happy and positive about her future but feels she needs to be at home for a while.</p>

<p>Do you have any relatives/family friend who could take her in for a while? Sometimes the family dynamic of nagging/failure/recriminations/apologies/forgiveness/…and the cycle begins again…is so hard to break. You dont want her in a dangerous environment but tell her she can stay home for 3 months or move in with a friend and you will support her IF she joins you for family therapy. Make a simple, simple requirement but be absolutely firm with it. If she fails in this one simple thing after 3 months give her money for a cheap hotel for 2 weeks and leave her. She sounds troubled and making her work or go to school before this is resolved is probably just extending the issue. Good luck!</p>

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<p>I hate to say this but this sounds so familiar other than the free tuition at her school part. My advice is to make it clear what you will and wont do and do not under any circumstances back track on the agreement. It sounds like your daughter has one foot out of the door yet wants to be financed by her parents. Growing up means taking responsibility and now is the time to make her responsibilties known. Do it in a very clear and concise way so that she completely understands that this is her life but she can’t walk all over you.</p>

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<p>Thank you all for the supportive replies. Just to clarify a few points - this is definitely a case of “she could have it all for very little effort” but doesn’t want to. She is very immature, her friend and being with her is really the only important thing to her, all else is secondary. We have actually, IMO, been pretty lax with her since she got the full time + part time job -since she was holding up 90% of her end of the agreement. But since she now got let go from the part time (for calling in too much) and has changed from the full-time to a “summer” job (full time, but 2 months) she is clearly becoming even less responsible.</p>

<p>We want the best for her, and believe me sometimes I think the best thing WOULD be kicking her butt out (or calling her bluff and letting her go). Her friend and she have a co-dependent/symbiotic relationship somehow. Her friend would probably let her live there free, pay for food, let her be a slug, etc. Still not gonna be a good learning experience, but as you have all pointed out - she’s 18. There really isn’t a whole lot we can do. I’m starting to think that hand’s off is the best tactic (with house rules, if she chooses to live here). If she goes back to school, fine, if not, well fine but as we discussed when she came home, rent starts Sept 1st - either at home or somewhere else. </p>

<p>To the other posters - there are other relatives she could go to - but they would probably actually make the situation worse (just enable her… pay for everything, make it easy on her). She would run to her friend first anyway I’m sure, who will also enable her. </p>

<p>I think if this best friend of hers had gone away to school as she was going to, none of this would have happened (the stress attack, sure, but no running home to stay…) I guess all we can really do is leave the door open for now, and set clear boundaries as to what will happen if she chooses to not return (or take some other track, like enrolling locally and actually going).</p>

<p>Thanks all, Im still checking this thread if anyone has any more insight or stories to share.</p>

7

<p>Why does she lose the free tuition if she moves out? Is this because she loses her dependency status? Maybe she will move out and then move right back in, somewhat chastened.</p>

<p>What does the friend’s boyfriend feel about her moving in?</p>

<p>The immaturity and "co-dependence’ w/the girlfriend seem to be crying out for counseling, honestly. Is she depressed at all? She is pretty high functioning in terms of work, or has been until recently, but maybe it would help for her to talk to someone.</p>

<p>Does she want to go to college right now? Does she want to return to the one she was attending, but live at home?</p>

<p>There is a contradiction here: she left dorm life to live at home, but now wants to leave home. So if she can leave home, doesn’t that mean she should be able to live on campus again?!</p>

<p>Or perhaps dorm life does not agree with her. Can she rent an apartment and live off campus with a friend or two, and avoid the commute?</p>

<p>There is no way that a 1.5 hour commute is going to work. I’ve tried it myself. And she would lose out on campus life in so many ways, as well as an easy way to study and relax between classes (going back to a room).</p>

<p>CC’s don’t agree with everyone, and some studies have shown that motivation goes down at CC’s. Not sure, but I do know that happens with some.</p>

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<p>You think the friend will let her live rent free etc. But for how long? My D has a friend who’s been with her all through college and now in another state. Guess what? My D finally said get a job or get out and gave a time limit of one month. A real wake up call for her friend. Everyone has their limits.</p>

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<p>My husband works with a very talented young man who just recently got his degree from a state school. The story is that he could not do well in school until he had to pay for it himself, and he is the first to tell the story as his resume has a list of impressive ug schools from which he bailed. His parents finally threw up their hands, he spent a few years at this and that before going back to college and cobbling together a degree. He is currently working on his MBA type degree at night with a wife and a kid, with another on the way. Coulda had all that paid for 10 years age,but it too k him this long to get him to where he is. Just the way it is for some people. He agrees that he should have be certified as insane those years, but there is no place to put away all of the young adults with this condition.</p>

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<p>Just to clarify your D would not lose her dependency status if she moves out.</p>

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<p>There’s a multitude of reasons that could possibly be keeping this teen from focusing…age could be one. Not all kids are emotionally ready for college post 12th grade. Some will eventually go and complete but about 50% of kids that head off to college don’t finish a degree for one reason or another. The best thing now is to figure out how much you are emotionally and financially willing to support her until she does figure out where she’s going in life. Some people boot the kids out and cut off support, others take them in and nurture them to the same degree they did in high school, others figure out some middle ground. Clearly heading back to college in August is probably not in the cards so letting go of that idea might help you. Fall might be telling as kids head back to high school or college and working people buckle down to well…working. Perhaps a year or two is what is needed to get this one socially and emotionally ready. Clearly she can “do” college work but without a commitment to that lifestyle and all it entails it’s a losing battle for parents.</p>

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<p>I am concerned that something traumatic happened in that first 24 hours of spring semester; my first thought was ‘date rape’, but it could be anything that abruptly disturbed this young lady. Perhaps a close friend did not return.</p>

<p>I would insist on a medical/psychological evaluation.</p>

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<p>^It is true that anything could have happened but it is also up to the daughter to talk to her parents, and discuss if anything traumatic happened. This is also the age where issues arise, and that should be investigated. If there is nothing going on regarding mental illness such as depression or any other serious problems, than it is wise to set limits so this does not go on and on for years. Believe me, I could tell you that we lived with total chaos for a very long time. We still are but at least we are learning how to live outside of it inspite of the situation. You can not control this situation because you cannot control what is going on in her mind or her actions. She must want to have a different life in order to make anything work. School is not the right place for your daughter right now, and that should not be a consideration at the present time. </p>

<p>My very bright daughter threw away a very good school by doing relatively nothing, and eaking by. We brought her home to attend a CC where she was doing very well. She went to school for the entire year including both winter and summer but each time finals rolled around we had to reel her in. That went on with each semester even once she attended the four year state school. It was exhausting, and the bottom line was she did very little to do so well because she was smart enough to do just what she had to in order to get the grades. I can honestly tell you that she seems to have learned very little. School did not really matter to my kid, and it couldn’t because she was dealing with her own demons. The thing to do now is rule out if her immaturity is as simple as all that or is it more. Good luck, and hopefully you will have more information regarding what is going on before you continue to buy into the notion that college is for everyone.</p>

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<p>Thank you all so much for your thoughtful replies. I apologize for leaving this thread hanging for the better part of a week, but I was off from work, and spending some time at home and on other jobs and just didnt have time to get back to the board. </p>

<p>To answer a couple of questions and offer more insight:</p>

<ul>
<li>Yes, we agree that something traumatic happened that first night back. She was fine when we dropped her off, even joking with my wife to ‘not cry’. (Kinda an inside family joke). Clues about the traumatic event have slowly revealed themselves to us over the ensuing weeks and months - We are about 95% sure we know the story. It was a friend, her college “best friend” - i.e. her ‘rock’ - the away-from-home substitute for her current and always best friend. (The one she currently prefers to spend time with at the expense of everything else completely). We believe that likely the last few days of the fall semester that this new best friend and our daughter might have had a falling out. Our D likely hoped or thought that it would be OK once they got back to school in the spring semester. Apparently it was not OK. They had planned to room together the following year, etc. This left our D ‘adrift’ with no rudder. She panicked. Bad. And once committed to her ‘solution’ - i.e. coming home and commuting, she is about as stubborn as an ox. </li>
</ul>

<p>I agree, this may not be the best thing for her, now anyway. My wife and I had a very frank discussion with her last week (just a day after this thread). We simply laid out the facts - money, time, committment, and her options. We told her in no uncertain terms that WE we not making any decisions FOR her, but that she needed to think over the facts and make a decision about what SHE wants to do. </p>

<ul>
<li><p>Go back to school and commit to this whole silly commuting thing, with at least the thought of possibly returning full time.</p></li>
<li><p>Give up for now, move out with her friend and take on “her own life” (her words - this option is in the list because it’s constantly mentioned by D, when angry usually, as in “I’m just moving out to have my own life”)</p></li>
<li><p>Consider community college, either living with us or her friend.</p></li>
</ul>

<p>We made it 100% clear that we are not forcing ANY of these choices, but that she needs to make a decision and commit to one of them, and not half-commit, especially if her decision involves college in any way.</p>

<p>A big part of this discussion has also been the “you cant have your cake and eat it too” - as when she moved back in (actually before she even went to school) we had a discussion about house rules, expectations, and mutual respect. I.e. we don’t pressure her to live like shes still in junior high (i.e. coming and going), but she’s expected to keep her room cleaner than “pig sty smelly” and help out around the house when asked. No overnight male guests, etc. Pretty standard expectations, not overbearing at all in my opinion. </p>

<p>She thought about it and told us she wants to pursue her original plan. Live at home (with the afore mentioned understandings) and commute, unless she feels she can move back. So we shall see.</p>

<p>She starts her new job today. A great job in her field, but very temporary (summer only). So that really underscores the commitment I hope. We did also discuss that she needs to keep looking for a weekend only job for when she is back in school, as she will need additional money.</p>

<p>Here’s hoping for the best. For her that is, Im just not sure exactly what that is.</p>