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<p>Out of curiosity, do you mean Davidson? (My niece went there.) And no one out here has heard of it. Oh well. She’s got a great job in Raleigh and now has another opportunity to move to England with her employer - a fantastic adventure. The fact that people elsewhere haven’t heard of it is irrelevant, IMO.</p>
<p>^No, it was not. It was Washington & Lee.</p>
<p>Guilty as charged, absweetmarie. But I will get involved defensively in any discussion which suggests that one reason regular school grads do just as well or better than Ivy grads is that the latter are socially inept or don’t understand real life.</p>
<p>^^^But the thing is, TheGFG, people who make those kinds of idiotic arguments are, well, idiots. In my own analog to “no negotiation with terrorists,” I make it a policy not to argue with idiots. They’re not generally smart enough to know they’re wrong.</p>
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<p>I can’t blame you for feeling that way.</p>
<p>In many areas of the country, there are not loads of Ivy grads applying for jobs. The jobs are being sought by locals who have grown up and been educated in those regions, whether at the state flagship or other perfectly acceptable institutions. Naturally, those individuals may be intelligent, well educated, hard working, and quite qualified even though they did not receive an Ivy or similar type of degree.</p>
<p>I completely believe that in the northeast, whether we are talking NYC, Boston, Philadephia, etc., that Ivy pedigree may well get someone into the door ahead of the Suny grad. But as Pizza and others like myself have tried to make clear, that is still only one area of this great and large nation. In other regions, the shock and awe for these schools is nowhere near as great, and many people are enjoying the American dream of great job, good salary, wonderful marriages and family life without that pedigree. More than many apparently understand.</p>
<p>Since we are talking personal anecdotes, I find it very interesting that my DH’s college group are almost ALL very successful businessmen and women, in spite of not only not having an IVY or similar prestige education, but not even the pedigree that comes with our state flagship (my alma mater) or even that “other school” people attend when they can’t get in or go with family tradition or personal preference. DH and one of his frat brothers organized a reunion of sorts a few weeks ago for a football game, and some 60 of them showed. It was uncanny how many of these men and women have been spectacularly successful financially as well as personally. Maybe 3 or 4 divorces in the whole group, lots of happy, accomplished children, etc. Quite a few millionaires in the group, a few making serious money by any standards, and maybe only one or two with advanced degrees. I don’t know how many Ivy grads are living and working in Texas right now, but just based on what I’ve seen with DH’s crowd, these men and women are keeping pace very, very well.</p>
<p>First of all, Texas has a much better job market than probably any place in the country except for North Dakota. When jobs are plentiful, it makes sense that having an educational pedigree matters much less. Second, my sense is that Texas is a proud place which values all things Texan (unlike self-deprecating states like the one I live in). My Texan sister-in-law tells me that people don’t often leave the state for college and only one of her kids’ friends did so. In contrast, the majority of my kids’ friends left our state for higher education. Third, UT Austin is excellent–far better than a lot of other state flagships. In areas like business and accounting it has a fantastic reputation. All of the above explains helps explain why you don’t see what the big deal is with Ivies.</p>
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<p>Depending on one’s circles, that is probably true. I know in the DFW metroplex, that seems to be changing somewhat. A lot of the non 8%ers who cannot get into the flagship or A & M are moving out of state to attend U of Alabama, U of Arkansas, Ole Miss, Auburn, OU. Of course, all large state schools. Still not many Texas teens aspiring to Ivies or other prestigious schools in the northeast (exceptions being kids from the established private schools or “top” public schools). My D’s class (private school) had approx. 122 grads who went to over 60 different universities, most out of state. But admittedly, this is not the norm.</p>
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<p>The same is generally true for the Big 10 state flagships. It is just a different mentality. And that mentality is reflected in the “who’s who” in each of those cities. The “who’s who” in NYC and Boston and Philly may indeed have degrees from east coast elite schools - but the “who’s who” in Chicago often has them from U of Illinois, those in Dallas from UT-Austin, and so on and so forth.</p>
<p>The place where you find the strongest correlation between swanky sheepskin and high pay is high end law and MBA degrees. If you work at Goldman Sachs or Skadden Arps, there is an extremely high chance that you have a JD or MBA from a top 10 school. And many (but not all) people that get those fancy graduate degrees went to fancy colleges. </p>
<p>Quick unscientific sample: Bill Clinton (Georgetown – Yale Law); Hillary (Wellesley – Yale Law); Bush 2 (Yale – Harvard Business); Obama (Occidental – Harvard Law); Michelle (Princeton – Harvard Law); Mitt (Stanford – BYU – Harvard Law and Business).</p>
<p>Outside of those narrow areas (which are extremely credential conscious), who you are and what you can do matters much more than where you got your degree.</p>
<p>Finance seems to be the other more school-prestige-conscious line of work.</p>
<p>There also seem to be regional differences, in that northeasterners seem to be more school-prestige-conscious than others in the same line of work in other regions, based on postings in these forums.</p>
<p>My sister works at an expensive private law school and I asked her what it took to become a professor there. She said that you have to graduate from a very prestigious law school and get published. So, for a student who is interested in that direction, it would be worth it. For my brother who went to a state law school that many here might poo-poo, that was the correct choice because now he has lots of connections in the state,with whom he now makes lucrative business deals plus, he has many lifelong friends from his time there. I went to school out of state and have lost touch with most of those folks except for recently reconnecting on Facebook.</p>
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<p>So at the end of the day, as they say, all we have really proved is that prestige is largely regional–a point some of us have been making for years. It just so happens that some of the most high-paying industries are located in the same region of the country as the Ivy League.</p>
<p>(I know this should not come as any surprise to anyone, but CC seems to be the only place in the world where this revelation does not get a “well, duh!”)</p>
<p>More than anything, it depends where you intend to work. If you intend to stay in a particular region, you would do well to go to a school that is prestigious within that region - which may be a state flagship, or a locally known private LAC. A nationally known school will not hurt.</p>
<p>If you want to work in Washington DC, or NYC, you may be better off at HYPS or other nationally known school. If you want to work in London or Paris, again you are better off attending a school known outside the US. There is the benefit of people in those businesses knowing the reputation of your school, but there is also the benefit of networking. You can network at a flagship - and that network may be more beneficial if you are planning on doing business with your state government, or other local businesses. But the elite schools (and I don’t mean just HYPS, but some of the smaller LACs) provide a smaller network with a larger reach. It’s great to have a huge network, but it’s better to have a network that includes that one person that can get you in the door where you want to work.</p>
<p>^^But how many 17 year olds know where they intend to work five or more years later? (Answer: very few.) And how many will change majors (and even colleges) at least once before they graduate? (Answer: very many.)</p>
<p>My midwestern son is attending a little-known LAC in the south. Most people here have never heard of it. This summer, shortly before he left, he met two recent graduates of his college who live and work in our small city. One has a full-time job doing research at a promising biotech startup and the other landed at THE most desirable place for young people in our area–a wildly successful company whose founder just made the Forbes billionaire list. Apparently, the people who read resumes at these two businesses know smart, accomplished kids when they see them…even if they have to do five minutes of internet research on their alma mater before deciding to give them a chance.</p>
<p>What a great thread! So true about hard work, motivation, and personal qualities being the decisive factor, rather than the alma mater.</p>
<p>Do you think though, that in some lines of business pedigree is more essential? For example, academia/research?</p>
<p>No. For academia/research it’s all about the PhD. And students from obscure colleges with hands-on experience, good grades, and commitment do very well getting into PhD programs.</p>
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<p>Likely any school-prestige effects would depend on your PhD school (in terms of its prestige in that subject), not your bachelor’s degree school, in this case.</p>
<p>For those students not at a well-known college I suggest that they seek entry into honors programs offered in their major. It’s always good to add a bit more luster and distinction to a diploma, if possible. The competition is tough out there and students may benefit from playing all the angles.</p>
<p>Best,
Gunnar Fox</p>
<p>My youngest is a freshman so it’s too soon to compare. But my oldest, who chose a small, regional private school in our state, where he received generous merit and athletic scholarships, will graduate (4 years) in May…and already has a job offer waiting for him upon graduation, in his field. He’s thrilled. The job is with the company with which he interned junior year. He impressed them; they want him, and he LIKES them. Salary and benefits are good, S really likes the location, it’s not too far from family…he is HAPPY. Isn’t that what it’s all about?</p>
<p>I come from a large family and there were plenty of us that went to State Schools and a few Ivy leaguers… The Ivy Leaguers ended up at about average(financially speaking), when compared to the rest of the family.</p>
<p>In watching our friend’s kids and where they landing and where they are today three years out of college there doesn’t seem to be huge salary differences between the prestigious college kids vs. state kids. We don’t know enough quantity wise to make any kind of statistically relevant observations, but this is what we’re seeing. No one is living or did live in their parents basement so I guess “we” as a group are ahead of the curve. Of course, the ones that are doing the “best” in terms of salary/job are those that went to work for their family businesses. </p>
<p>I think GFC touched on a not often talked about area and that is social aptitude. Socially inept people have a much harder time because they generally don’t interview well.</p>