<p>Any thoughts on this one?</p>
<p>Haverford for the location!</p>
<p>They’re both great but yeah, I think Haverford’s location is a plus. Philadelphia is great and New York is doable as a day trip.</p>
<p>Thanks for your thoughts. Actually location is not an issue. The small town of Davidson is great and close to Charlotte so big city life is available. </p>
<p>I get the sense these two are close in campus feel, but would love to hear more.</p>
<p>Davidson is a 1/3rd larger which would make a difference for a lot of kids. Haverford is very small. Davidson has D1 sports, which provides a different culture on campus. My son didn’t like either school but he did not like small schools. He refused to go on the tour after the info session at Haverford, arguing that:" Any school that has to lead with the honor code doesn’t have much of a story to tell." I thought that was pretty astute. On the other hand, I was disgusted that Davidson washes the kids’ laundry.</p>
<p>Wish I knew. We’ll be visiting both again.</p>
<p>" Any school that has to lead with the honor code doesn’t have much of a story to tell." </p>
<p>That’s pretty cynical. As a Quaker, I totally get the honor code thing. Honesty and honor is part of the foundation of our history. Kudos to your son for recognizing right away that Haverford wasn’t a good fit for him.</p>
<p>“” Any school that has to lead with the honor code doesn’t have much of a story to tell." I thought that was pretty astute"</p>
<p>I’d say that’s more of a story than many schools.</p>
<p>I can see why your child would not like Haverford or Davidson based on your remark about the honor code. Both of these schools are largely self-selecting with people who “get” that the honor code is not only a great tradition but the foundation for all of the many wonderful stories that make up the Haverford community. I feel honored that my son is a part of this great school.</p>
<p>Definitely, anyone who doesn’t value the honor code doesn’t belong at Haverford. Your son made a good decision to avoid it, obsessedparent; he would have been miserable, because the honor code is central to campus life at Haverford. </p>
<p>My D was drawn to Haverford largely because of the honor code, along with the great academics, of course. As she put it, “Every LAC tells you about their great sense of ‘community.’ But Haverford’s different, because there community isn’t just an accident; through the honor code, people are working intentionally on building a community based on personal integrity and mutual respect. That’s the kind of community I want to be part of.” It is different, it is unique, and it’s not for everyone. Best that people see clearly which side of that line they’re on.</p>
<p>Both Davidson and Haverford have strong honor codes. I’m not sure what my son’s reaction to this was (maybe neutrality or thinking it is cool to schedule your own finals), but I really like it. To be surrounded by integrity and honesty is such a good thing – an education in itself. </p>
<p>Different strokes for different folks – we loved the laundry service, a throwback from the Davidson was an all men’s college and the men worked part of the day. What a treat!</p>
<p>Haverford has an academic atmosphere that is as rigorous, serious, and stimulating as one could possibly find in higher education at the undergraduate level. In addition, it as a sense of community–the trust, respect, and concern students have for one another and between the faculty and students–that’s unique as well. Of course, a large part of that is due to the Honor Code.</p>
<p>For what it’s worth, Haverford’s honor code is actually unique. It’s older than most honor codes, it has a social component, it is student governed (debated and approved by students each and every year for more than 100 years, not just imposed by the administration). I think that’s why the College and student tour guides take the time to explain it in detail. I think bclintok (see post #10) quoting his D. has captured it well.</p>
<p>Haverford is intellectual, community-oriented, socially-aware, quirky, leadership-oriented (e.g., consensus, self-governance focus), fun, empowering, diverse, rigorous, supportive, values-oriented, committed to the whole person. </p>
<p>HC is extraorinarily close to (and it’s easily accessible) a major metro city (one of the country’s 5 largest). I know that Davidson is not far from Charlotte. But I still think Haverford wins on this score. Philadelphia just means more: in terms of opportunities (social and cultural events, internships, a great/rich pool of adjunct professors and guest speakers, etc.).</p>
<p>By the way, on the size thing, yes HC is about 1200 students which makes it smaller than most of its peers. But in talking to friends at other LACs, I found that generally speaking they often concentrated friendships with people in the same year (really only using 1/4 of the student body). At Haverford because it’s smaller, there’s a lot of cross-pollination of friendship between the class years (above you and below you). It doesn’t feel small because people really get to know others from the two or three classes ahead of you and then the the two or three classes below you. So, with one quarter of the student body changing every year there are plenty of people to meet and interact with if you have a culture where class year distinctions aren’t significant bars to genuine social interactions/friendships. </p>
<p>Here’s what CP (another college website, which CC doesn’t allow you to type the name of) says about Haverford: “Most seniors look back on their Haverford education with a distinctive appreciation. It is a fondness that comes from understanding how profoundly the College has changed them. Haverford teaches its students more than just school subjects: it teaches them to lead honorable lives… Many alumni do not realize the scope of their education until years later, but the impact is almost always felt. In this way, Haverford is unique.” </p>
<p>Congrats to your son on two terrific options. There’s no wrong choice. Just a matter of where there’s the best fit.</p>
<p>Wow, what a great description. Thank you! By the way, do you know Davidson well to make the direct comparison? Obviously Haverford is a fantastic experience.</p>
<p>One person brought up to me that there is more of a “conservative” atmosphere at Davidson than Haverford. By this I don’t mean issues of social liberalism/conservatism like sexuality which I suspect are the same at all the schools we are discussing. I mean more philosophical or political liberalism/conservatism? Of course, most colleges are quite liberal in this regard, too, but my son is not. Again, he is super accepting of others, but would he be the lone libertarian on campus?</p>
<p>My S is at Haverford, so I know the most about it, of course, but we have a good friend finishing his Freshman year at Davidson, and my youngest son is looking seriously at Davidson as well. I posted the question about conservatism on the Davidson CC thread back in the fall and received many helpful replies. Most said that it is the Southern flair that perhaps accounts for his more conservative nature, but that intellectually it is very progressive and forward thinking. I think that academically they schools schools are very much the same. The D1 sports, at Davidson, perhaps for some would be a draw. Many Davidson students posted on the thread that the school has grade deflation and some resented this, feeling that they have to work harder than their counterparts at equivelant schools to attain the same grades. I know that both schools take their honor codes seriously. I received one response on the thread that felt Haverford’s honor code was bult on Quaker values while Davidson was more dervied from the "Southern gentlemen: code of honor. I love Haverford and so have that bias, but as others have said, you cannot go wrong either way! Good luck!</p>
<p>Burry,</p>
<p>I already posted on the Davidson board. A few other comments that react to these postings.</p>
<p>Location – a wash. Access to Charlotte and access to Philly are pretty much the same. The public transportation to Philly is a bit easier, but few students take advantage of this option on a regular basis. (At least they did not when I was a student at Haverford.)</p>
<p>Campus feel – Davidson is definitely a bit more conservative. Sounds like your son may be similar to mine in this regard – looking for something a bit more balanced.</p>
<p>Honor code – you are right to think this is a big plus. What what it is worth, I valued the honor code while I was at Haverford, but I only really began to appreciate the honor code in the years since I graduated. Davidson and Haverford are both quite serious about their honors codes and I think that helps distinguish these schools from their LAC peers.</p>
<p>Sports – Davidson may be a Div I program, but I think that is pretty much a legacy of their tradition with basketball. For a non-athlete, the important point is that academics trump athletics. Coaches have to work around their athlete’s academic commitments, not the other way around.</p>
<p>Thanks for the recent posts confirming to me they are both similar and great experiences.</p>
<p>By the way, to anyone, is there not grade deflation at Haverford as there appears to be at Davidson? </p>
<p>Interesting tidbit, Davidson does not slot athletes (in other words giving each coach so many slots to use as acceptances). The students have to get into the school on their merit including academic, of course.</p>
<p>My sister attends Davidson, and I am a student at Bryn Mawr, so I know a thing or two about Haverford (though admittedly not that much…). My sister really enjoyed her freshman year (lots of partying at frats) she started to feel like attending Davidson was not the best decision she’d made later on. We grew up in Massachusetts, and to her, Davidson has a very southern feel, at times. I don’t think she feels very at home there. People would call her a “northern hippie” for wearing a knitted hat,(similar to a beenie, but not) or a sweater to class. And believe me. My sister is not a “northern hippie.” Haverford has a larger community northern students, and no frat culture to speak of (which I would consider a good thing). Just putting that out there.</p>
<p>“Any school that has to lead with the honor code doesn’t have much of a story to tell.” I thought that was pretty astute."</p>
<p>I think it’s astute your son quickly figured out that HC for whatever reason wasn’t the right school for him. I hope he found a school with better resonance. Another interpretation to your story I would like to suggest is that, just because your son “didn’t get it”, perhaps he didn’t think about it deeply enough. There are some very smart and savvy alumni that value the concept of an “honor code” for what it represents. Because a 17 yo doesn’t see it on a brief tour doesn’t mean it isn’t there.</p>
<p>PS: Many schools have honor codes but each is based on a particular hisory and campus culture and so are implemented and conceptualized differently. Davidson’s is based on a sense of southern honor and chivalry… Haverford’s is based upon ideals of trust, respect and the idea of “inner light.” This makes them very different.</p>
<p>My S, a true cynic, did not like the honor code aspect of Haverford. He felt they talked about it too much. He wanted to apply, but he wouldn’t write the honor code essay, so no application.</p>
<p>However, his close friend and good buddy loved that about Haverford, applied ED and adores his school.</p>
<p>That’s why not every student is a fit for every school. And a good thing too, but these LAC"s have such small student bodies (particularly Haverford) that if everyone wanted to go there there would be even more very disappointed students.</p>
<p>On the other hand, my S fell in love with Williams which is not everyone’s cup of tea either. He didn’t apply ED, but was accepted RD and is still in love as a junior.</p>
<p>I think it’s a mistake to generalize from one kid’s reaction. To me, Haverford is a lovely school with wonderful traditions. The fact that it wasn’t right for my kid doesn’t change that.</p>
<p>We <em>did</em> joke to him that we were happy he ended up north of Long Island instead of South. The routine of the bridge to Staten Island and then another bridge to NJ <em>is</em> rather cumbersome, whereas we just take a ferry to New England.</p>
<p>I am, of course, injecting a bit of levity. Had he wanted Swat or Haverford (and been accepted) we would have taken him gladly.</p>
<p>HC Alum, what an interesting difference in origin of the two honor codes. I had never heard anything like that, but it makes sense.</p>