Haverfords drop in the US News ranking

Haverford has dropped precipitously in the US News rankings, down to 18. Is there a reason?
While I know that the ranking have dubious merit, to my D who is applying to schools this fall it matters a lot. She had never heard of Haverford, nor have most of her friends, and her perception is that it’s not as prestigious as Hamilton, Bates, Colgate or Colby, much less certainly not on par with Bowdoin or Midd. She does not even want to visit!

Since US news ‘erases’ prior years lists there is no way for me to say its a recent change to their ranking - or at least that is what I think it is!

(I would LOVE to see a listing of the top 20 LAC’s for a smattering of the past 20 years)

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Though exceeding this time-frame, Haverford circa 1960 surpassed (by entering standardized testing) schools such as Brown, Dartmouth, Hamilton and Stanford by one tier; Bowdoin, Duke, Middlebury and Penn by two tiers; and Colgate by three tiers:

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1897982-the-historical-selectivity-of-colleges-by-sat-score-tiers-p1.html

https://books.google.com/books?id=ykQEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA100&lpg=PA100&dq=life+magazine+1960+college+admission+tufts+bowdoin&source=bl&ots=5BKi5WV8SQ&sig=GFl_LycVnJV8AGIXLX2P9kW97I0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=sO1TT4uPK-jm0QG8ifC3DQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

By recent trends, Haverford, by the same standard, still surpasses some of the aforementioned colleges:

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-610-smartest-colleges-in-america-2015-9

Tell her to look at the scores, selectivity, grad school placement, etc. Haverford is consistently top flight. It is smaller than all of the other schools you mentioned and has a very different type of location, which I mention only because a student who is looking for proximity to a city would be unlikely to choose any of the ones listed above, regardless of rank, but could be quite excited by Haverford. (Just as a skier could be very disappointed with Haverford. )

Choosing a school by rank alone is a great way to end up unhappy. Sounds like you have a tough case on your hands. Good luck!

Just how much “better” is the #8 school than the #15 school? I would agree these ranking are a misguided way to choose the best LAC for you.

Tell her she can take classes at Penn, Swat and BMC – what I regard as a pretty sweet bonus. Also tell her that Haverford’s academic rep on CC is well above its USNews ranking. I think they’re top-10 there, on par with schools like Wesleyan, Vassar and Carleton.

Perhaps college rankings should be looked at the same way class rankings are beginning to be. Many high schools don’t rank because, at the end of the day, there’s a lot of hand wringing over a few thousandths of a point. Is it really that distinguishable? As someone said, is there that much difference between number 10 and number 20?

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Your wish is my command. A Mt. Holyoke professor has done the heavy lifting and compiled the US News rankings for LACs for the past 30 years.

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A few years ago when Haverford’s Forbes rating dropped, it was found to be a data entry error…perhaps this is the case again.

Thanks to all for the amazing feedback. A few thoughts:

  • This was not meant to be a "are rankings valid" thread so I am just not gonna go there in my answer.
  • Wow lots of info about the rise and fall of schools on this list (antioch... really?). The thing that stuck me strongly is Hamilton, which I was shocked to see rated so highly at some points in time.
  • The core question of why the downward movement Haverford has taken has not been answered. There must be SOME reason it is falling on these lists (I had no idea it slipped on Forbes, it is now 8th which is not so bad). To see it rated with Williams not long ago and now at 18 must be based on SOMEthing. As they say all cliches are rooted in some kind of truth...

And I would also say that i find lists that rank school by SAT scores quite irrelevant. There are lots of metrics to intelligence and I feel SAT/ACT scores is one part of a complex puzzle.

This is certainly true. Nontheless, standardized scoring profiles can be a handy reference with respect to recognizing the academic quality of schools such as, to use a revealing example, Reed, which currently places 82nd in its U.S. News category, but appears among the top 15 LACs by scoring factors.

What and when was Haverford’s peak rating in US News?

According to the spreadsheet, Haverford has been as high as #5, most recently in 2002.

USNWR is a joke picking a college because of what magazine publishes.

When 25% of the score is based off of reputation alone that should tell you something. Just spend some time reading why USNWR is ridiculous! Yet, Parents start debating it as if it is the golden standard of accuracy.

5 #6 or there about in LAC for much of the late 90's to early 2000's. The exact number is not most important metric, that is was a 'top' LAC vs now it is not in the top 15 is what I am referring to. D goes to a furiously competitive private school in NYC and Haverford is not on the kids radar. Laugh and snark if you will but trying to convince a 17 yr old that rating don't matter can be tough. I am not in disagreement that all the ratings are wonky - although I tend to agree with Forbes more in my personal reactions to schools - but you cannot deny that they exist. I was mainly wondering if there had been an event or series of events that caused the drop. And looking at the spreadsheet the path has been steadily downwards which can be a concern.

Haverford was ranked 12 last year to answer a couple questions above. But keep in mind there are a LOT of ties in the rankings. So this year the ranks jump from 12 to 18 because of a 6-way tie for 12, so by that measure Haverford only dropped one slot. If you flatten all the ties (i.e. counted the next one below a tie as the next sequential number), Haverford could be ranked 8.

Within this narrow margin, these rankings are basically all within a margin of error. Meaning there is little statistical different between most of the ones in the top 20. Also, note that every ranking chooses to emphasize different statistical measures so there is no magic to the rankings – it’s not like some definitive experts of what makes a great college did this ranking, it’s a formula that is tweaked a bit every year.

Bottom line, the rankings are useful to a point but you can’t obsess on them to the smallest number.

I have no dog in this fight – no kids at Haverford and not an alum; toured once and that’s it. But my eldest focused deeply on LAC’s and my second is leaning that way too. So I’ve spent the last 3 years pretty deeply invested in researching them. I would say, if anything, Haverford would be a slight step above the “prestige” of those you mentioned in the first part of your sentence (Hamilton, Colby, Colgate) and on par with those in the second part (Bowdoin, Middlebury).

It is harder to gain admission for what it’s worth than those on the first part of your list. My kids considered Haverford a low reach but Colgate and Hamilton matches. Their high school has extensive Naivance data going back years (every student is required to participate). Mileage will vary school-to-school but for perspective the average SAT (new 1600 scale) of an accepted student from their high school to Haverford was 1516 with a weighted GPA of 4.24 (this scale would only be meaningful to their high school so only including it for comparison to other schools stats from their high school). Keep in mind these averages have to factor in recruited varsity athletes and legacies, so if you have no hook the likely required stats would be higher than these. Also, Haverford (and most of the others you listed) rely extensively on Early Decision to fill about half their classes. So there’s a major difference in admission stats between ED and regular decision – these stats are an average of the two.

Now for comparison, Colgate’s stats are 1450/4.06 (meaningfully lower ave GPA than Haverford). Hamilton stats are 1477/4.14. And Colby’s are 1474/4.09. Again, don’t assume these numbers have any relevance to other schools. But they are comparatively relevant to each other from the same school.

Yet another measure would be endowment size. The larger the endowment, the more they can spend on students whether through aid or capital programs or general resources. It’s also used by some ranking schemes as indicative of alumni success since most of these endowment funds come from alumni giving. When ranked by size of the endowment per student, of those schools you listed, Bowdoin is ranked 16 (of all colleges in the US), Hamilton is 34, Haverford 44, Middlebury 49, Colby 50 and Colgate 57. Putting Haverford in the middle of the pack.

Admission difficulty, like rankings, is not the be-al-end-all either. So I’m not sharing the stats to make a case that it makes one of these schools better than the other. Just sharing the data to counter the OP’s daughter’s perception that Haverford is some tier lower than those other schools. The bottom line is all these schools are so close together than you should basically consider them a tie. Which means you shouldn’t rule any in or out based on rank or admission stats and instead focus on what makes them unique.

Does your daughter want an urban setting, a suburban setting (i.e. proximity to urban) or truly rural? Haverford is nominally suburban but very close and convenient to Philadelphia and very close to a major airport and train station that could get students to NYC in a couple hours. By comparison, Colgate (really pretty campus BTW) is literally in the middle of nowhere, as rural as it gets for an LAC on the Eastern seaboard. Hamilton (another pretty campus – less uniform that Colgate due to historically having been two schools) is less rural but not much. All LAC’s are small schools, but there’s still a meaningful difference between Colgate with about 3,000 students and Haverford with 1,100. Some people love the idea of that smaller student body. Others want more students. What Haverford does have that none of the others you listed do is that they are part of the tri-college consortium (does sound a lot like the Harry Potter tri-wizard tournament). That means you can take classes, do activities, etc. at Bryn Mawr and Swarthmore and there’s shuttles between them daily. Bryn Mawr is super convenient – 5 minutes way. Swarthmore is less so, pragmatically more like 20. All three schools also have a relationship with UPenn for engineering classes. There are some other schools with consortiums (all the Claremont schools in particular), but most don’t.

Good luck in any event with your process.

Looking at the ranking in more detail, it looks like Haverford doesn’t perform as strongly as others in the category of Faculty Resources, The student faculty ratio is 9:1 (which is excellent) but some higher ranked schools are 8:1. But the difference in 9:1 vs 8:1 is unlikely to have any impact on classroom experience

By statistics indicative of mathematically meaningful discrepancies, Haverford’s “drop” may be an illusion dependent on only the appearance of its ordinal (rank). Looking at LACs by their U.S. News “overall score,” the top 22 correspond as follows:

100: Williams (set at this figure by methodology, not a “perfect score”)

95: Amherst

93-85: 20 colleges, including Haverford

I think that Haverford is for a very specific type of student. Fit is extremely important. I think that if your daughter does not want to visit you shouldn’t make her visit. My son went to an extremely competitive private HS as well and was roundly criticized for applying to LACs. His classmates who were academically comparable to him thought he should only be applying to the top universities. He really wanted a LAC because he wanted good undergrad teaching.

The reasons he loved Haverford are:

He wanted a small school with small classes.
He liked the suburban Philly location.
He liked the honor code.
He liked that students were trusted by administration.
He wanted professors who were there to teach.
He liked the tight knit community.
He liked the lacrosse opportunity.

He has only been there for a few weeks but he seems to be enjoying himself. After speaking with my son I think that at Haverford students have to really be a good fit or they will be unhappy. Since your D doesn’t seem to want to consider Haverford why not just let her pick another place?

@4junior, you have asked if there are any events which have caused Haverford’s drop in the rankings in the past year/s. "The core question of why the downward movement Haverford has taken has not been answered. There must be SOME reason it is falling on these lists " You also state, “This was not meant to be a “are rankings valid” thread so I am just not gonna go there in my answer.” But the answer from many of us will be that the rankings are just not a true measure of the quality of an institution as US News methodolgies change from year to year (therefore the results are inconsistent with previous years’ assessments) as do the efforts by colleges to manipulate the data in the effort to climb the rankings (ex. going test optional which dramatically changes the SAT/ACT reporting (Bowdoin); to a school offering only ED 1 versus ED 1 & 2 (net effect on yield); to dropping writing supplements and application fees) . The validity of rankings is so tightly wound with answering your question that it is impossible to answer your question without raising the other point.

Maybe your answer lies in the possiblity that Haverford has not in the past flooded the market with literature, dropped testing requirements or writing supplements or otherwise attempted to game the rankings. (One could argue that several colleges higher in the list have done so). Perhaps this is reflective of the honor code? I would like to think so anyways. Hmm. I will add that Haverford has made a recent switch from offering only ED1 to offering ED 1 and 2. It will be interesting to see the net effect of this on yield and test scores, and how it ultimately changes the ranking in the future. I hope this isn’t a sign that Haverford is chasing the rankings.

Here is an article which addresses some of the issues when considering how much stock to put into rankings:
https://www.liberalartscolleges.com/us-news-college-rankings-meaningless/