<p>I'm thinking about joining a fraternity and am wondering if they haze? If so, which fraternities are known for it and to what extent? Any comments are appreciated.</p>
<p>My S is in a fraternity and from what I understood (of course they don’t tell you everything) the university has very strict rules on hazing - if by hazing you mean heaving drinking, abusive behavior, etc.
He was a pledge last spring and I know it was extremely difficult because it was a huge time commitment added on to the already busy academic life. There is a ton of information each pledge must learn, required time at the house, etc. My S described it as “another class” and as a result, a lot of guys opt for an “easier schedule” that semester - 12 credit hours, nothing too difficult.</p>
<p>In the end, he said it was a great experience–he loves his fraternity and greek life in general. </p>
<p>Are you recently admitted? If so, Vanderbilt has “delayed rush” meaning you won’t get a bid until spring semester freshman year. You will, however, spend most of the fall semester getting to know all the houses, attending parties, etc. Official bids go out in January - after the break.</p>
<p>Yes, I was just admitted am thinking about joining a frat. And yes, I was wondering about the heavy drinking, abusive behavior, etc. So from your post, I take it that kind of hazing is not part of the greek process at Vandy.</p>
<p>And I like the idea of delaying rush. Thanks for the input</p>
<p>[Phi</a> Delta Theta colony closed by nationals due to hazing, alcohol | InsideVandy](<a href=“Inside Vandy: Vanderbilt University's student news source”>Inside Vandy: Vanderbilt University's student news source)
[Don't</a> haze me bro | InsideVandy](<a href=“Inside Vandy: Vanderbilt University's student news source”>Inside Vandy: Vanderbilt University's student news source)
[The</a> unessential nature of Greek Life | InsideVandy](<a href=“Inside Vandy: Vanderbilt University's student news source”>Inside Vandy: Vanderbilt University's student news source)
[BYX</a> fraternity undergoes hazing investigation | InsideVandy](<a href=“Inside Vandy: Vanderbilt University's student news source”>Inside Vandy: Vanderbilt University's student news source)
[Hazing</a> accepted among students | InsideVandy](<a href=“Inside Vandy: Vanderbilt University's student news source”>Inside Vandy: Vanderbilt University's student news source)
[BYX</a> hazing investigation concluded | InsideVandy](<a href=“Inside Vandy: Vanderbilt University's student news source”>Inside Vandy: Vanderbilt University's student news source)</p>
<p>Don’t know if you saw these or not.
There are probably more on the site.
Make what you want of these; while probably mildly sensational, they are probably more accurate than whatever B.S. is on Office of Greek Life and Admissions site @ Vanderbilt.</p>
<p>I have a son who graduated from Vanderbilt in May. The fraternity system is very flawed. Yes, he ended up in the house he wanted and was happy once he was in. The 20 year old fraternity guys run the system. It’s not regulated and almost cruel to the guys - dangerous in some cases, because guys take chances they shouldn’t. I wrote a long, detailed email to the Dean of Students and director of Greek Life in 2009 after my son was done with rush. I hated it…they should do rush in October so the freshmen are jerked around all fall. “unofficial” bids go out in december. Of course, not EVERY group is this terrible - just the top 5 or 6. I can honestly say that it’s the main reason our younger son went ED somewhere else. It was difficult to watch - even from a distance. I asked the administration to please look at other schools to get this system under control and have seen very little progress in that direction. </p>
<p>I do think the sorority system is very well managed and is really user-friendly for the girls. Unfortunately, putting that template on the boys wouldn’t work.</p>
<p>Swimmer - I’m just curious what you mean by “hard to watch” and “getting the system under control”? How would you suggest they handle it? </p>
<p>Certainly, everyone’s experience is different, but of all the parents and kids I’ve met the past 1.5 years, I don’t know anyone who thought the system was as you describe. We know guys and parents in lots of houses (at least 6 that I can think of now) and everyone seemed fine with the way things were handled. My S never felt “jerked around” - he very much enjoyed the fall, visiting houses, getting the know the brothers. I would say he felt very much “in control” - in the end HE chose his fraternity, NOT the other way around. It is a 2-way street. </p>
<p>Not having to go through the pledge process until second semester is way better than dealing with it when you are still adjusting to college life in the fall. Several of my friends with kids at universities with fall pledging HATED it - it was simply too much too soon.</p>
<p>Perhaps, a lot has changes since your son was a freshman 4 years ago. Interestingly, I can honestly say that greek life at Vanderbilt is one of reasons my younger son is hoping to apply ED there - quite different from your younger son!</p>
<p>I think its fair to say that this decision is really a personal one for each individual at their school. Some kids love it, some don’t and that is not unique to Vanderbilt. Greek life seems to stir debate on every campus.</p>
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<p>The thing about guys is that they don’t complain, so many freshmen are left out of the system during the fall semester and no one knows what happened to them. They see their opportunities vanish before spring rush. I know a lot of my son’s hall mates really wanted to go Greek, but got dropped during the fall and didn’t pursue - they were turned away at parties or told not to return to a house. Why do you think there are so few guys actually in fraternities? It’s almost impossible to get more than one bid, as is possible at other schools doing spring rush. You were lucky - many are - I’m just saying that there are LOTS of guys who fall through or just walk away. Guys aren’t vocal like girls would be. My son actually was lucky, as well, he wouldn’t change how it turned out. He did tell us when it was over that he felt like he was in danger at one freshman rushee outtings with a group in October of his freshman year. That group did get in trouble in later years and 50 of them were arrested off-campus. My daughter was also at Vanderbilt and she was in a strong sorority- she substantiated a lot of the stories.</p>
<p>Again, some do really well (you and my older son) - it’s just not a user-friendly system for the majority of the guys. Like I said, I would do a structured rush for guys in October and have all pledging activities done by Thanksgiving. It’s known for being a harsh system at Vanderbilt - I’m definitely not the only one who thinks that.</p>
<p>If a guy is a cool and social guy, he will get a bid at a good fraternity. He just has to go out, meet some guys, and he will have no problem. If a guy is awkward, boring, etc, then no he is not guaranteed a bid. Fraternities are run by the undergraduates in them. It is ridiculous to expect vanderbilt to tell fraternities how to rush kids. Kids that are not cool will not get bids to good fraternities. Joining a greek organization is not a right; I’m not sure why you’re trying to make it seem that way. Why should a fraternity have to let kids into their parties and assume the risk of the unwanted kids doing something they shouldn’t?</p>
<p>Guys don’t complain because rushing all first semester is fun. It’s free activities to do every single night you want to do something. Girls’ rush is stressful, shallow and most girls hate it. Vanderbilt instituted a “formal rush week” for guys in January the past two year. It’s a joke because everyone already knows where they are going. Pledging from October until Thanksgiving? That is an absurdly short pledgeship. </p>
<p>To the original person, if you like having fun and partying, you will definitely want to join a fraternity. Greek life dominates the social scene on campus (anyone that wants to try to argue that, please come to campus on any given tuesday, thursday, friday or saturday night). You might get hazed, but it is no where as bad as state schools. You will survive and, and you’ll be very glad you are in a fraternity.</p>
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<p>You make good points, but the Greek system shouldn’t be just for cool, fun kids. There are fraternities on every campus that struggle with getting pledges. From your point of view, they should just not exist because of survival of the fittest. However, “uncool” fraternities should be encouraged to survive and thrive. There is no perfect system for boys that I’ve heard of.</p>
<p>You mentioned that they have rounds in January that are just for show. That started when my son was there. The university still believes that decisions aren’t made during the fall semester, just as I suspected. It used to be that freshmen came to the winter formals and got their bids there. The university made a rule that freshmen couldn’t go to those functions and thought they had gotten rid of the “receiving a bid” portion. Of course, guys would just do it at another time. </p>
<p>Yes, I agree with you that Greek is everything at Vanderbilt. By junior year, it’s less so because kids go to all the great clubs in Nashville. However, it’s all about the Greek system, no matter what anyone tries to say.</p>
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I agree. There seems to be a real commitment to following Panhellenic Council guidelines (which can be quite detailed and restrictive) on recruitment, which means no hazing and better results for more of the potential new members. (My d would be so proud of me for remembering that term … ) </p>
<p>It does seem as if, as vandyclassof2013 says, fraternities run themselves without supervision. I don’t know if the IFC (Interfraternity Council) has a lot of input on rushing procedures.</p>
<p>Yes, I agree with you that Greek is everything at Vanderbilt</p>
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<p>I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: Only if YOU believe greek is everything at Vanderbilt. Hard as it may be to accept, there are many happy, well-adjusted non-greeks who actually have no interest in the greek system. It is possible to enjoy Vanderbilt without being part of the greek system … thousands of students do that every single year.</p>
<p>I have nothing against greek life (H & I were presidents of our respective greek organizations, and I have even been a chapter advisor). However, it is not for everyone, and those outside the system are rarely looking in longingly through the windows.</p>
<p>Yes, I agree. My H and I were Greek - I was president of my group at Vanderbilt, actually. Both my S and D were officers of their groups at Vanderbilt, as well. That being said, I’m responding to my son’s freshman-year sadness and shock about how many freshmen boys didn’t play the game well enough during the fall semester - a lot of it is luck and being at the right place at the right time. The fraternities seem to feel they have to “cut” people every week and they do that. After 12 weeks, there’s not much left. Some organization by the university is sorely needed. There are 16 fraternities on campus and many do not get many pledges at all. I think ALL freshmen set their sights on 5 or 6 or them and just quit when they are told to leave a party…there should be some sort of system in place so that these guys consider the other houses and fill them, too. The freshmen are 18 years old! This shouldn’t be left to them. Look at the numbers - 16 fraternities have fewer members than the 10 sororities. The girls have it made.</p>
<p>All that being said, it is possible to have a fabulous experience at Vanderbilt without the Greek thing. Just be mindful that it’s an overbearing presence.</p>
<p>good post 11, kelsmom. I’ve said the same things on this board, but I’m usually saying it to people for whom Greek life is everything at Vanderbilt. There are people at Vandy who don’t (and don’t want to) rush, but do make friends, go out, date, have campus leadership positions, etc. I don’t think they necessarily find Greek life at Vanderbilt an overbearing presence because they’ve made their peace with it, or ignore it, or don’t feel a need to join organizations with a selection process that makes them uncomfortable. There are a lot of smart people at Vanderbilt, after all. (In Greek life and out of it.)</p>
<p>I do think it’s helpful for potential students and their parents to read a full range of viewpoints on Greek life at Vandy. Some may well think, “I don’t think I’d be happy there because Greek life doesn’t appeal to me.” And some may think, “Greek life doesn’t appeal to me but a highly selective urban school with great faculty members, programs, facilities, and opportunities does.”</p>
<p>^ That’s a great post! Lots of kids get caught up in the Greek hysteria freshman year, but it does wear off quickly. Obviously, the majority of students aren’t involved. The fact that Nashville is a great city with a lot going on helps diminish Greek life importance somewhat. That being said, I have to say that I’m glad our youngest is going elsewhere in the fall…</p>
<p>I’ve had a couple of current Vanderbilt mom’s private message me with fraternity rush stories similar to mine. I know what it’s like to be a current parent and not want any of the spotlight when it comes to these issues. I’m sorry for you all - those who are included in the fraternity system only see the successes - those who are disappointed by the process (and that’s the majority) see the negatives. There are other groups on campus like the BUX (Brothers Under Christ). Last I heard, Phi Delta Theta had gone dry nationally. I know that’s a big 180 from the Phi Delt’s of the past on the Vanderbilt campus, but it’s worth looking in to. Vanderbilt should look into some of the professional, coed fraternities that have caught on at other campuses to round out this experience. When some groups are getting 6 pledges - it’s obvious that something is really wrong. </p>
<p>I remember what this is like and I’m sorry for many of you. It will pass and perspective will be restored! Vanderbilt is a great university and it’s a shame that so many kids get a distorted view of it because of the fraternity rush system. When you leave it in the hands of 20-year-olds, it’s just not going to be a good experience. That’s all I have to say on this subject - I’m done.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, much of the information in this thread is severely misguided. Because of the secret nature of fraternities and sororities, it’s in their best interest to remain extremely quiet when it comes to internal operations. Loose lips can destroy a decades-old chapter in a matter of minutes, as evidenced by the numerous chapters that have either been on probation or lost their chapters entirely in the past ten years or so. Thus, even if a university such as Vanderbilt says that it has haze-free Greek life, you cannot take their word for it. The same thing applies to “dry houses” and drinking. Those types of proclamations are primarily to prevent universities (and national fraternity organizations) from liability, as well as to assure apprehensive parents who might be worried about their child participating in Greek life. Rarely do they portray an accurate representation of what actually goes on in fraternities and sororities.</p>
<p>And as a student, I can say with certainty that Greek life dominates the social scene. Whether not that is a good thing is up to the individual, but it’s a fact. Furthermore, it is true that the Greek scene is extremely competitive, perhaps even more so than big state schools. This competitive nature arises out of the fact that the fraternities and sororities are relatively small, yet such a large percentage of Vanderbilt students wishes to participate in Greek life. Yes, a non-Greek student can find things to do, but he or she will have a significantly more difficult time, especially if that student wishes to find big parties where alcohol is present.</p>
<p>If you have any questions, send me a PM and I’d feel free to answer them.</p>
<p>Yes, a non-Greek student can find things to do, but he or she will have a significantly more difficult time, especially if that student wishes to find big parties where alcohol is present.</p>
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<p>And there it is, in a nutshell. If your ideal college experience involves a social life that revolves around getting drunk, this advice may be relevant to you.</p>
<p>If you don’t care about finding big parties where alcohol is present, you may be among the majority … those students who find things to do outside the greek system. Yes, there are many things to do that do not involve getting drunk.</p>
<p>Apologies to those who are in the greek system and do not lead a life that revolves around getting drunk at parties (I know they exist, because I have met some of them).</p>
<p>kelsmom, I think there are exceptions to that. I wasn’t Greek and went to a lot of parties where there was plenty of alcohol. It all boils down to who you know. If you’re friends with some fraternity members they can/will invite you to things. I didn’t drink until my junior year but the opportunity was always there.</p>
<p>I have a son who rushed with all of the friends he made freshman year but did not get a bid. Perhaps he made a bad decision by focusing on only one frat, but that’s where his friends wanted to go and there simply was not enough time to spread himself around. It was a horrible experience. But worse than that was there was then nothing left to do socially since he couldn’t get into parties. How is someone who IS social then to have a life at Vandy?</p>
<p>Of all the posts, you did the best job summing up the biggest problem with the Vanderbilt system - it’s really terrible!!! Like I said before, the university doesn’t have much of a role in the so-called spring rush and this is how it ends for a majority of the boys involved in fraternity rush.</p>
<p>Your son will be fine, but it is a huge disappointment after the excitement of getting into such a great university and thinking you’ll be part of the Greek system, isn’t it?</p>