<p>I understand that the military/WP doesn't allow "hazing," but from what I've read and heard, it seems to happen anyway. So I'm wondering, if you ARE "hazed" in Beast, should you then under the honor code report it to someone? I was talking to a Navy '12 girl whose brother went through USNA and he was hazed, and not just like PTing, but serious hazing, and my squad leader at WP SLS said that he was hazed as a plebe too.</p>
<p>It does happen, but it's hard for any of that stuff to be monitored during beast (or plebe summer at Navy) because the company officers and senior enlisted leaders are not always around for everything when it goes down. It's hard for that stuff to happen during the academic year, but if it does, you can tell a 3/c if you don't feel like bringing it up the chain. Sometimes you might "feel" hazed, but the military academies have different boundaries to where they think certain actions are hazing or not.</p>
<p>Hazing at WP is not the same as hazing on a regular college campus. It's more like "extra attention," sometimes lots of "extra attention." Some cadre (those training new cadets) have gone past what's acceptable for WP's hazing norms when instructing new cadets, but they are also being graded on their performance, so it doesn't happen often and the upper command usually gets wind of it and then deals with it.</p>
<p>Beast is pretty miserable anyway. You and all the other new cadets will be challenged to your utmost and then beyond. If you feel that you are being hazed beyond the norm, beyond what you see happening to all the others around you, then you can report it. But make sure it's not a spur of the moment reaction. Think it through first - alot. Otherwise, just do what you're told, when you're told and always try to do your best. You'll still receive attention, because that's part of Beast. But you'll get through it - like all the other new cadets that have gone before you.</p>
<p>Hazing during the academic year is different than during Beast. You may have upperclassmen within your company that just wants to flaunt their authority. You'll have to figure out a way to deal with them. </p>
<p>When I was at PPW, it was very evident when talking to my d's NCO and TAC, that they knew exactly who was doing what within the company. Not much slips by.</p>
<p>I think that there needs to be an understanding about what consititutes hazing and what doesn't. My son is a plebe this year and he explained to me a few months ago how he had been "hazed", and I spent the next thirty minutes telling him that I did not think he had been hazed at all. </p>
<p>So, in hopes of everyone being on the same page about what constitutes hazing and what doesn't, lets try these examples. If your defintion of hazing is being yelled out from time to time by upperclassmen (sometimes a lot), there is hazing at West Point. If your definition of hazing is having to cut a pie or cake a certain way, West Point has hazing. If your definition of hazing is a lot of physical exercise (usually with upperclassmen), West Point has hazing.</p>
<p>However, if your defintion of hazing includes physical abuse, West Point does not have hazing. If your definition of hazing includes requiring someone to chug massive amounts of alcohol to the point of throwing up, West Point does not have hazing. If your definition of hazing includes a "hell week" during which all kinds of "special events" are held, West Point does not have hazing.</p>
<p>I was a member of a fraternity during my college years in the 1970s and we had the hazing described in the paragraph above. What my son has gone through this year will never be described as sitting around the campfire and singing kum-ba-ya, but it should not be decribed as hazing.</p>
<p>Thank you all=] I also have another question (I'm going off topic in my own thread, haha). One of the guys at my school is also applying to WP. He did not attend the Summer Seminar, so he needs a MALO interview. However, he said that when he called his MALO, he never picked up, and never returned a call. My buddy is still in a limbo stage right now. He took the CFA last week and he didn't pass on the Pull up event. He does not have a LOA, but he also received an "authorization" to take it again. Is this a good sign for him? And what should he do in the previous situation? (He asked me these questions and I have no answers, so I'm passing it on to those who are more knowledgeable=] And a big thank you on his behalf)</p>
<p>Requiem: Your friend can contact his Regional Commander in admissions and ask if he needs to have an interview. </p>
<p>"So I'm wondering, if you ARE "hazed" in Beast, should you then under the honor code report it to someone?"</p>
<p>Cadets will tell you that they are "hazed". The "hazing" they refer to is is being "corrected by upperclassmen". It is not the hazing that the class of 1960 might have endured, and is not the hazing one would find at a civilian university. WP has strict rules about what is acceptable and what is not, and if the rules are broken there are consequences for the upperclassmen. The honor code refers to lying, cheating and stealing - so unauthorised "hazing" would not usually fall under an honor code violation. You will be given plenty of instruction about the honor code, regulations, and reporting procedures during Beast.<br>
Maybe one of the current WP cadets will add their thoughts.</p>
<p>West Point, for the vast majority, does not have anything that comes remotely close to being 'hazing.' New Cadets and Plebes refer to being 'hazed' all the time, but its more lingo for being yelled at and getting smoked. Back in the day, Cadets used to get legit hazed; read any book about West Point prior to the 1990s and I think you'll recognize that the things underclassmen went through are now considered torture by our government. The bottom line is, you're going to get yelled at (no more so than a Soldier in basic training), you're going to get smoked (no more so than a Soldier in basic training, and hardly ever during the academic year), and it serves a purpose. There are about 100 things going on at once at any given second when I'm patrolling with my Platoon in Baghdad-constant traffic over the radio, countless civilians and vehicles all around my vehicles, friendly patrols passing by, random gunfire, my gunner reporting what he's seeing, you get the point. If you cant handle getting yelled at a little, which does a good job of raising the stress and making you perform under that stress, you are going to be hard pressed as an officer. That's why West Point has always had the stupid memorization and 'hazing.' It makes you learn to perform under pressure.
Also, I have friends who, as cadre, got into severe trouble for making new cadets do push ups without a TAC present, so there is a great deal of accountability for upperclassmen.</p>
<p>To be authorized to take the CFA again is a good sign. It shows that he is otherwise competitive for admission.
I had to retake the CFA because of the Basketball Throw event (which I think is silly, but I digress).
After working long and hard on the proper throwing technique, I retook the test and improved my throw over 20 ft.
Then, after resubmission, I received my appointment within a month or so.
I did not have a LOA or any automatic nominations. I worked long and hard to gain my appointment. After it was all said and done, I had two Congressional nominations to attend WP, Annapolis, and Air Force. I received my appointment so far to WP and Annapolis, and you better believe I am choosing West Point!</p>
<p>Anyways, as far as to your question, yes, to retake the CFA is a good sign. Tell your friend not to be discouraged and keep bothering his MALO until he returns his call. The MALO's job is to interview potential candidates, and he should not be ignoring his call. If he continues to ignore his call, call WP and ask to speak with an admissions counselor.</p>
<p>I hope this helps. Tell your friend I said good luck, and I hope to see him June 30!</p>
<p>Hazing has kind of taken on a new defifnition in recent years. You will get yelled at, asked to know the meals for the day, how many days until certain events, and other random pieces of knowledge. You will also get smoked a good amount, but cadre cannot lay hands on new cadets. And you also have a miconception of the honor code if you think by not reporting hazing you are breaking it, but they will set you straight with this during Beast.</p>
<p>Homer09,
I thought that under the honor code you're supposed to report any serious rule breaking, and that hazing by upperclassmen IS rule breaking. Then again, I am not all that familiar with the honor code (except the Don't cheat, steal, or tolerate anyone who does part) so thank you for your information. Onto another point, I received an email from my POC today about "Civil Prep." Does the reception of this email say something about my academic/physical file then? Because the tone of the email sounds like I'm no longer being considered for normal admission but rahter to prep school...and this is after I received an LOA too. Did anyone have a similar experience at some point?</p>
<p>Requiem - you need to call your Regional Commander and ask about the Civil Prep letter. </p>
<p>There is a difference between honor code violations (lying cheating, stealing and tolerating those who do) and regulations violations. The difference will be made clear to you during Beast - you will be given briefings.</p>
<p>Ann, the only thing I can think of is that her CFA might have been marginal. But yes, call the Regional Commander.</p>
<p>I thought I did reasonably well on my new CFA (results already in)
Bball throw: 44 ft
Pullups: 1
Shuttle Run: 9.8 sec
Sit-ups: 77
Pushups: 50
Mile: 7:22</p>
<p>However, I will call the Regional Commander tomorrow regarding this. This doesn't mean that I will be looked at negatively at the panel right?</p>
<p>requiem - an offer for Civil Prep usually means you're overqualified for USMAPS and you've been waitlisted, but since you've already got an LOA, I'm guessing it was a paperwork mess-up. Call your RC anyway.</p>
<p>if you think someone being loud in your direction, or doing 20 pushups at a time is too much, don't come to West Point.......</p>
<p>hazing? ...</p>
<p>Demosthenes,
The "hazing" I'm talking about are along the lines of what FWDAD said, and I understand now that it doesn't happen at West Point. Pushups are fine, but force fed alcohol's not, and I just had to make sure that things like the latter aren't going to happen. Thank you for your reply though!</p>
<p>Requiem - To clarify, you misunderstood the squad leader at SLS? When he said he had been "hazed" as a plebe, you thought he had been force fed alcohol?? Wow - I can assure you that definitely does not happen!</p>
<p>OH no I meant FWDAD's example! Haha my squad leader was definitely not force fed alcohol!</p>
<p>Hmmm. Ok, I guess you lost me then. What did you think your squad leader meant when he said he was hazed?</p>
<p>Well, I thought he meant stuff along the lines of upperclassmen forcing plebes to eat salt or something(saw that on another thread).</p>