<p>Sorry Hyeon, I’m still a little touchy about Berkeley. DH and I are alums. Grandparents and great-grandparents alums. D1 with stellar everything, rejected from Cal. … State flagships suck.</p>
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<p>I want to know the answer to this one too.</p>
<p>We can cull a list of match school criteria from this thread alone:</p>
<ul>
<li>school accepts >35% of applicants</li>
<li>your kids stats are 75th percentile or above</li>
<li>curriculum pertains to your kids interests</li>
<li>parents ok with financial aid offered/cost of attendance</li>
</ul>
<p>Anyone else want to add to this list?</p>
<p>For my son we figured Carnegie Mellon was a match. Nearly everything else was a reach and he used RPI and WPI as safeties. From our school other possible matches might have been: Washington U. in St. Louis (everyone with his stats waitlisted or accepted), U. of Chicago (everyone accepted, but a pretty small sample), U. of Michigan, Vanderbilt - probably some of the midwest LACs where you get diversity bonus points.</p>
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<p>I don’t know about MI or VA, but I don’t see the clear answer for that California kid. She might not get into Berkeley or UCLA, and though she surely would get into Davis and Santa Cruz, so would the out-of-staters. </p>
<p>As to what safety she should be happy to attend, well, that depends on the kid. Those who value prestige over everything else won’t be happy to attend any safety. Students with different values will be able to find schools that offer the extracurricular opportunities and challenging academics they want in a quite a number of less prestigious, but still excellent, schools.</p>
<p>Shesonherway, I’d call your list a safety (the above 75th percentile part). If your kid’s stats are in the 25 - 75 range, then it’s a match. Just remember that match doesn’t mean you’re going to be admitted, just that you match their profile. A match is not a guarantee.</p>
<p>Of course, if your stats match a school and they admit 1/3 or less of their kids, it’s a reach. Period.</p>
<p>I am new here to the forum and greetings to everyone here.</p>
<p>mathmom I would love to know your kids profile, if you think that WashU and Chicago are matches. Chicago is very self selective when it comes to kids that apply. Stats alone are not the end all be all at WashU. I have seen very very few kids that could even possibly consider either of those schools to be a match. With WashU there were quite a few dissapointed applicants this year that had that opinion when they applied.</p>
<p>Lafulum84 - You’re right. I guess I think that most people these days think that if you are a match, then you’ll get in. Your stats can match an ivy or elite school, but it is still a reach for everyone. </p>
<p>Again, I can’t stress enough, not to be lulled into the “my kid is awesome; they’ll get in” frame of mind. If a school accepts 30%, then 70% are rejected. Those 70% generally have the same stats and profile as the kids who were accepted.</p>
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<p>Absolutely not. An unhooked white applicant from a typical affluent suburban high school or private school needs at least 75th percentile stats for a school to be a “match”. </p>
<p>It is critical to assess your odds against those in the same stack of applications. A white suburban student is not competing for any of the slots with 50th percentile stats or lower. Those are going to recruited athletes, diversity applicants, development/VIP applicants, and applicants with a knock 'em dead “hook” that trumps poor stats.</p>
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[QUOTE=Cardinal Fang]
I don’t know about MI or VA, but I don’t see the clear answer for that California kid. She might not get into Berkeley or UCLA, and though she surely would get into Davis and Santa Cruz, so would the out-of-staters.
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<p>However, the OOSer can’t afford to pay for Davis or Santa Cruz.</p>
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<p>The out of state students who can afford Yale or Stanford can also afford Davis.</p>
<p>mathmom,
We considered CMU SCS, Mudd and Chicago to be target schools, based on the particular things S brought to the table. </p>
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What is a “match” school for a kid with 2300+ SATs, an A average, all APs and honors, good ECs, awards, top 10% of their class? Can it be a “match” school if it accepts less than 20%? What is the “safety” the kid should be happy to attend? If the kid lives in VA, CA, or MI, the answer may be clear.
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<p>We looked at schools where the admit rates were in the low 30s or at top-rated programs that were very specific to what S1 wanted (i.e., CMU’s SCS). Flagship was the safety with likely merit $$ (he ultimately got a full ride) that he was happy to attend and where he would have had an excellent advisor, accelerated placement and a top-ranked department in his major. It helped that S was very, very focused on what he wants to do (and has been for a while). We feel very fortunate he had some terrific options. We also ran S’s list by Dave Berry the summer after junior year as a sanity check. Nevertheless, S1 did not get into every school to which he applied, despite a couple of very big hooks.</p>
<p>Our stats are like that “California Kids” and we live in California. Good matches are CalPoly, and all the UC’s below Cal and UCLA. Those stats “should” get you in all those. The Kid matches the profile for Cal and UCLA, but just like Stanford and the Ivies, there is no sure thing at those schools based on stats alone. Applying to many is the best bet for any.</p>
<p>Our safety was UC Davis. We visited, plus visited with professors in the department. We wanted to know that if our child attended Davis, would they be able to help them get research and a plan to get into an elite graduate school. We were satisfied that they could, and they would help us to achieve that goal.</p>
<p>It is very important to me that my child understands that if they go to UC Davis, they can get an excellent education, and do the extra things (which we have always done) that will get them to the next level. I would be very proud if my child attends any of the UC’s.</p>
<p>Frankly, a kid like the one listed should know that at any college, and here I include all the Chico’s and SJSU’s of the world, they have the tools to excell and distinguish themselves within their field. No school can hold them back.</p>
<p>I agree with the post that states that a match can easily become a reach if you have NO hook. In our case, we have anti-hooks 
So, all the more reason that we will have to be far more careful with S2.</p>
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[QUOTE=Cardinal Fang]
The out of state students who can afford Yale or Stanford can also afford Davis.
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You assume full-pay, which is erroneous. UCs are notoriously stingy about OOS financial aid; Yale and Stanford, notably, are not.</p>
<p>Plenty of students are full-pay. Anyway, that wasn’t the question. The poster was wondering what would count as matches for a no-hook kid with high stats, and what safety schools that high achiever would be proud to attend.</p>
<p>Jumping into this conversation rather late, but I really trusted my son’s college counselor as the lead. The entire office has a great reputation at being accurate in what schools are possible, probables and likely. She has said she will never “kill a dream” even if it’s obvious it is overreaching (although others in the office do not have that hesitation). However, she makes sure the dream is tempered by reality.</p>
<p>Now given this, of son’s list of 8 schools, none of them would be considered a safety. Not one. And I asked plenty of times if she felt confident in the list so he’d have choice and she did. I would have never felt that level of confidence in our public school counselors (and didn’t when DI was going through it). I will say however that as much support and wonderful good wishes I was given on CC (and it was HUGELY appreciated by many), it was still true that there are a lot of perfect scores and kids who embody the “whole package” that reading some of these threads can undermine the confidence hugely. And so on some basic level, being stupid to the process isn’t all that bad.</p>
<p>Look at it this way… if you know so much about facts, figures and the odds of acceptance that you dont encourage the kid to go for it even if it is huge reach and something a kid wants, than perhaps you know too much. Yes, it was a killer that son was rejected from Dartmouth, but as he has since said himself, he would have regretted having not applied and wondering “what it” for the rest of his life. With a flat out “NO,” he now really HUGELY appreciated every single yes. </p>
<p>So… it’s kind of like Forrest Gump: Sometimes good timing and dumb luck is really all you can count on. :)</p>
<p>Plenty of students are full-pay, yes, but those who aren’t can’t afford to choose UCs as safeties.</p>
<p>Anyway, to address the question: Disregard the peer group for a moment and decide what draws you to your top choices OTHER than prestige or overall academics (not counting strength in particular academic interests). Find those qualities in other schools. Then start winnowing down that list based on reputation/peer group.</p>
<p>I’m a no-hook kid with high stats; if my parents were only more enthusiastic about Wisconsin, I would be set, because I adore Beloit for reasons unique to it (e.g. BSFFA, Beloit Science Fiction and Fantasy Association, which has its own house).</p>
<p>Modadunn, it’s nice that your son’s list worked for him. Unfortunately, if it had NOT … you would be wishing he had included a safety. It is not difficult to include a safety, and it can be a lifesaver for some. I would not change my advice to always include a safety just because your son or any other kid was okay without one.</p>