<p>My nephew was accepted OOS by UCLA, UCB & Claremont McKenna. After some agonizing and visiting the schools, he is a very happy freshman at Claremont. These days, being able to graduate from a UC in 4 years is quite challenging with the budget cuts. We toured UCB and tho it’s a nice place and has some prestige, it is HUGE and my understanding is that the classes are extremely large. At Claremont, he has very small classes, is a starter on the football team, and has bonded well with his classmates & profs. The annual cost of attending is comparable–actually lower because nearly all the kids graduate in 4 years instead of 5.</p>
<p>Where cost is a factor & the student is planning on grad school which may not be fully funded, it doesn’t make sense to turn down an excellent flagship U where your child will shine. It also does not make sense to take on significant debt – parents or student – when you have palatable options, with the current economy.</p>
<p>We really wanted our S to consider a full-ride at UAz, but he chose a 1/2 tuition at USC and is extremely happy there in EE, where he will graduate in 4 years, May 2010. He, D & most of their friends didn’t apply to any OOS UCs because we had heard from many sources (including a former UC adcom) that it just wasn’t worth the OOS cost for what you get with all the budget cuts – this was before the current financial crisis hit.</p>
<p>My DD is a graduating senior at Berkeley. No problem whatsoever in finishing in 4 years, could have been done in December and that is with study abroad. I think the problems arise when kids do not start out with good planning to cover the GE requirements and to take the toughest course load in terms of potential majors. DD went in undecided and took the classes that would work for any of her potential majors. If she had not, she could have been behind when she did declare.</p>
<p>DD came from a very small town and is not impressed with the crime in Berkeley, or in the big city in general.</p>
<p>There is lots of campus housing and I do not think any one would have a problem staying in campus housing all four years, as it is MUCH cheaper to NOT be in a dorm. You can live in a Greek house, share a big old house with buddies or rent an apt. We have had no problems in 3 years of off campus housing.</p>
<p>DD has met some seriously amazing profs and managed to even connect personally with some and garnered grad school LORS. DD is that kind of person, it did not just happen. I have a more laid back DD who is flourishing at a small unknown LAC and she would not have fought the madding crowd to connect with profs at Cal!</p>
<p>I would not bash any school or build up any school, I would look at what you get for your money. All the good is true and Cal does have a worldwide reputation, but $45k a year for a public just does not make sense, save Berkeley for grad school when they ought to be funding your DS :)</p>
My kids haven’t had any issues getting major courses. Sometimes there could be a need to select one GE versus another depending on when one tries to get the class. But there’s no issue at all in graduating within 4 years unless one decides to do a tough minor along with a tough major or something. I think this is typical - at least for engineering majors (which my kids were/are). It might be different for some other majors. If one is taking a major with fewer course requirements (poliSci, etc.) and has lots of AP credits, they could fairly easily graduate in 3 years if they wanted to.</p>
<p>I don’t think any budget cuts have affected my UCLA D - at least not yet.</p>
<p>i want to chime in here on ucla too- my d actually could have graduated this quarter, in 3 years; but she is doing a minor and will do at least 2 quarters next year. She never took extra classes either, that is a combination of her ap credits and her uc credits. She will probably take her full 4th year, but her case is not extraordinary. Most ucla students have just as many credits to start as she did. She did have priority registration, which helped in the first 2 years to get the GEs she wanted, but friends without it seemed to get the same exact classes and aren’t behind. This year, she got any class she wanted. Despite some “ruffles” on campus with paperwork, classes are available. A few prereqs required waiting a quarter or two to get them, but she did get them. And she changed her major once…In fact, my d doesn’t know anyone taking 5 years to get through ucla, all her peers are going only 4 years. One did it in 3 years and went into a masters program this year. UCLA has a monitoring check system to keep students on thepath for 4 years, so I don’t know how you could get 5 years.</p>
<p>UCLA does have a few impacts to its expansion, but classes don’t seem to be in the forefront of that. The really important things that my d has loved: abroad program, washington program, seminars, etc. are still there. Budget cuts have had a minimal impact on students, except on paperwork and one class that would have had a discussion group was offerred without it (lecture only). I would call that minimal impact. It has been offset with the calibur of professors lecturing in her depts. and their genuine high standing in their fields. </p>
<p>I did my undergrad in econ at Claremont McKenna, and I can see some differences. There are adv and disavs on both sides. It comes down to the fit. But I would not say that the student experience at either one is absolutely better. They are both very good, but in different ways.</p>
<p>I do have to say my nephew took 7 or 8 years to graduate from a CSU. Poor guidance at a community college resulted in units which transferred but did not check off boxes for GE. Then he worked full time and did school part time. Nothing to do with the school, everything to do with his life and putting himself through school</p>
<p>The Education Trust lists the following 4-year graduation rates for 2006, the last available data year:
UCB- 61.2%
U of Minn(Twin Cities)- 32.5%
CSU-Cal Poly-19.9%
UCLA-59.3%
Claremont-Mckenna-81.2%
So it seems U of Minn takes a long time to get a degree, which could be from several factors, one being the school has lots of students who are working their way through college, poor class selection and overcrowding, etc… who knows?
[The</a> Education Trust - Closing the Achievement Gap](<a href=“http://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/search_group.aspx]The”>http://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/search_group.aspx)</p>
<p>The OP will need to weigh all the factors here, it is not a cut and dry answer really.</p>
<p>As mini points out, MN is an urban campus that serves working adults as well as traditional young undergraduates. The graduation rate really cannot be compared here.</p>
<p>UMN-TC had a 17.9 % part time population and a 13.5 % pop. of age 25 and over according to ED Trust (see above link). 29,000+ students
UCB had a 5.1% part time and 6.7% over 25 population. 22,000+ students
Mini:
I am not sure the differences in the night and weekend adult group would make up the graduation rate between the two schools. Without doing all the math, it seems a full-time undergrad at UCB would graduate in four years at a greater rate than at UMN.
So, how much longer, if any, and at what cost would that mean for the OP’s D to attend UMN / UCB?</p>
<p>Minnesota actually finds its low graduation rate worrisome. The number-one reason Minnesota students tend to take more than four years to graduate is that they take light credit loads while working their way through school, or stop out to save up money to go back. Minnesota and Berkeley OUGHT to be comparable, both being state flagship universities in fairly large states, but Minnesota lags most (all?) of the Big Ten universities in graduation rate, and lags most (all?) of the UC campuses too.</p>
<p>UMN-TC really is working to improve itself (although I don’t know how that will be affected by the current economy). These last few years (esp. this last year) they have really improved the quality of the students (stat wise for sure). It’s a little hard for them, I think, due to the tuition reciprocity with UW… Madison steals a good percentage of the top students. But it is improving. </p>
<p>If your kid has been taking PSEO… does she even want to go away? I know many people who, during PSEO, fall in love with UMN and don’t want to leave. A friend of mine who does full-time PSEO is currently deciding between UMN and Notre Dame (w/ great FA). UMN is winning. </p>
<p>That said, UMN is obviously used as a safety by many MN students, and a lot of people go there for an easy coast, or just because they don’t want to leave. There are probably a good number of kids who commute, or go home for the weekends, and most people are from MN. Going out of state is definitely something to think about. And Berkeley is a great school and a good opportunity… but is it really worth almost $200,000 extra?</p>
<p>The 4 year graduation rates don’t directly infer inability to get classes though. There are lots of reasons to go over 4 years - pursuing double majors or a difficult major/minor, switching majors a few times, taking a minimal course load, doing a semester or year abroad in a way that doesn’t really add much in the way of credits, working one’s way through college, gaming the system for a higher GPA by dropping courses and retaking, etc. It makes sense that it would be most likely to occur at a more affordable institution since it would take quite a bit of money to do at a college that was expensive to the student.</p>
<p>UMN is not exactly that affordable, it’s 4K less than UCB, which is surprising. Even with UMN being 25K for out-of-state students, I doubt any CA resident would opt for UMN over any UC. There is a good chance of them spending an extra year.</p>
<p>I have been reading all comments and opinions from you and I appreciate your input. I think that I have got idea and will discuss with my daugther for the decision!</p>
<p>Our son has been accepted to USC and SMU. He is really pushing hard for USC. Not sure where he will land. Taking one last trip out to USC this next week for a formal visit. In class, etc.?? Huge tuition, no scholarship. SMU is offering him 10k per year in scholarship money. He is going to double major in Interactive media and computer science></p>
<p>I wouldn’t rely on 2006 stats for UMN’s graduation rates. That would reflect one of the last cohorts in UMN’s College of General Studies, basically an open-admissions arm of the UMN-Twin Cities that had abysmal academic success rates and was abolished about two years ago. Its abolition was controversial, as its supporters argued it provided an important ladder of opportunity to low-income and URM kids, especially those from poor inner-city schools. But clearly that program was killing UMN in these sorts of statistical profiles, and more importantly, the UMN administration concluded its low success rate simply didn’t justify the expenditure of substantial university resources. That was one of a number of aggressive steps tUMN has taken in recent years to bring its overall graduation rate up. Another: the university’s Four Year Graduation Guarantee which guarantees that if you’re unable to meet graduation requirements because a courses is unavailable, the university will adjust the requirements to allow you to take a substitute course, or make up the tuition if you need to stay an extra semester:</p>
<p>It’s still a struggle, though. I’ve heard top university administrators say their biggest challenge in raising graduation rates is that so many Minnesota kids say they’re coming in “on the six-year plan,” expecting to pay most or all of their own way through college through term-time and summer employment and the occasional semester off for work, just as their parents did before them. It’s an admirable, deeply Midwestern up-by-the-bootstraps work ethic in some ways, but it’s murder on graduation rates. Even the U’s notice on the Four-Year Guarantee notes that “almost three quarters of our incoming freshmen said that they expected to graduate in four years”—a startlingly low figure by private school standards. But it would be a mistake to take that as a mark of academic deficiency. It’s just a different way of viewing the world.</p>
<p>pookoz, I don’t think your situation is the same. The issue here is a large public university out of state versus the large public in state with a major cost difference. You’re dealing with 2 private schools. I’m not trying to downplay your question but you might want to post as a separate post.</p>