<p>The Boalt scale is one place to start for rigor, read as grade deflation. Dearth more followed by Williams are listed as the two schools hardest to get an A at. S has told me that we might earn a C at Williams for level of work that yields him an A at Stony Brrok, but insists he wouldn’t trade his time at Williams for a higher GPA. He was taking courses to prepare for a new interest and has now been accepted into a grad program. The Stony Brrok profs were SHOCKED at how much he knows and hasn’t received less than a 95 on anything, and he believes he has Williams to thank for that. So he has six courses of A at Stony Brook in one year vs 1 course of A ( though quite a few A-'s) from Williams in four years. I certainly could have predicted this difference in rigor. However, DS is certain the scope of his knowledge will be useful to him in his career, and Iagree with him.</p>
<p>Everyone has different values and goals. The trick is for the OP to help her son figure out what his are. I can’t help but think distance from home might play a factor here too.</p>
<p>OP–have you gone to the specific college sites here on CC and asked some questions? All of these schools are good. My son chose Grinnell and it was a great fit for him academically and socially, but that means nothing re: your student. He could have chosen Carleton, Mac, Oberlin, Pomona, Reed , etc. Grinnell is very rural, but they bring every activity to campus you can imagine. Grinnell and Mac have significant international percentages. My son was a history major and loved the perspectives of students from all over the world in his classes. He wanted no Greek and an unconventional student body. Your student may be very different. Grinnell was great for history and language study. Not sure how it is for economics, but I don’t know that about any of the schools you listed as hypotheticals.</p>
<p>I’ll add, my son really wanted to try a new part of the country. Don’t know what is true for your student. He really liked Haverford and Vassar, but they were a little close to home for him. For other kids they really want to stay closer. Both positions are valid.</p>
<p>WOW! I have been away for most of the day. I never anticipated that there would be so many comments about my issue. You all bring up very valid points. I cannot address everyone individually other than to say THANKS!
I apologize for not wanting to share the specific schools. I am not a big fan of online things (blogs, forums, shopping etc…) I felt that identifying the schools could lead to my child being identified as these schools are from two rather distinct areas of the country and I do not feel that there is a tremendous amount of cross over applications between the two groups of schools. Please be assured that our situation is real.
Our son is our only child so we have no previous parenting experience in the world of college decisions. Things certainly have changed since I applied to college! I really appreciate the posts that talk about specific experiences with your children – thanks for sharing! I think one post said it best – along the lines of – It matters more what the student does when they get to college than where they do it.
Again, thank you all so very much for your input. You have provided great points for us to discuss over the next few days!</p>
<p>There’s a really, really good book with some excellent specific advice to college students about what to do and how to do it to maximize what they take away from their college experience.</p>
<p>I just ran across this topic… congrats on your waitlist acceptance. I’d suggest the schools are very different. I do think the difference between a mostly regionally known school and a school with a strong National reputation is substantial when it comes to the future, so I’d give that some serious weight. Beyond that though - your son should look at all the schools he is accepted to and can afford to attend and pick the one that overall he prefers. I hope he’s had a chance to visit them. Good luck.</p>
<p>That’s a good point. There is no sense in setting yourself up for a miserable experience. It might come down to a gut feel. </p>
<p>However, students sometimes get waitlisted for reasons other than academics. Could be he was similar to many other students on paper, and they wanted to have more variety so waitlisted some who would have been accepted if they were a bit more unusual in their EC’s or had exceptionally lively personalities. We know a young man who was rejected from MIT though he was valedictorian of a large school and had awesome stats and EC’s. Yet, another student that year, a student who was NOT in the IB program and who was unknown to most of the top kids, got in, apparently partly because of his participation in the robotics club which was mostly mechanics kids and because his personality was amazing. The valedictorian went to Princeton. Yet, he would have performed well at MIT if he had gotten in. </p>
<p>I would probably call admissions at this point and have a frank talk with them about why he was waitlisted in the first place to determine whether it was academics alone or whether it was something else that wouldn’t affect his likely performance. Your son can do this ideally, but if you do it with his permission they aren’t going to rescind the offer. </p>
<p>By the way, I am so impressed at all the knowledge here. We could really have learned a lot if we came here sooner when my son was applying.</p>
<p>To me, I think the difference is a student body that comes from all over versus a student body that is highly concentrated from a given area. I think the latter is something to be avoided; I think it makes for insularity when all of your classmates are from the same area (and frankly that’s a disadvantage of most state universities, though obviously that’s their mission to educate the students of that state). </p>
<p>I also think it’s important to show your kids that it’s a big world out there, and part of that is by steering them to places that have national reputations, where they can go anywhere, versus regional reputations, in which their job focus will have to be in the same region. I don’t dispute that there are good regional schools and that students are happy with their education and experience there. But I’ve seen enough people struggle with trying to establish themselves elsewhere with schools that are only known in that region, to say that it’s not something I’d want for my kid. BTW, this applies to schools that are often mentioned on CC - like the SUNY’s and some of the UC schools that are often mentioned big here on CC, but are pretty much college-non-grata outside their home states.</p>
<p>This is silly. It doesn’t matter if he was first on the dance card or last on the dance card. He wouldn’t have been admitted if they didn’t think he could do the work. They didn’t admit him going, “Well, he’s marginal, but …” He’s just as much “in” as the student admitted in the regular decision - and this whole focus on the fact that the admission was off the waitlist completely muddles up the decision the student has to make. He’s not second-banana, he’s not “less wanted,” he’s not marginally capable - he’s an admitted student to these schools and that’s that.</p>
<p>Exactly. All of this focus on getting in off the wait list is really, really misplaced. I know a kid who got into Vassar off the wait list, and it means NOTHING. An admitted student is an admitted student. She was happy to go there instead of Dickinson and never looked back.</p>
<p>Everyone knows that top schools have far more excellent applicants than they can accommodate. The kid was waitlisted because they HAD to make decisions. Maybe he was the fifth male applicant from his region with his general stats and strengths and ECs and they had already accepted 4 of them, so regretfully they put him on the wait list.</p>
<p>I cannot imagine calling the admissions office and asking them why they waitlisted him, expecting to find something bad. They waitlisted him because they thought he was GOOD and they WANTED to admit him, not because they thought he was flawed. If they thought he was flawed, they would have rejected him!</p>
<p>As I said above, this isn’t a prom date! Forget about heart to heart talks, brooding about who “wants” you more…this is not a teen romance.</p>
<p>Question to the OP-
In your OP, you focus specifically on that word that gets a strong reaction here-- “prestige”. You’ve gotten a ton of very useful suggestions on things other than reputation/“prestige” to have your son consider (location, transportation, meeting people from outside the region, comfort being away from home, strength of the department in the major he wants, availability of the faculty, etc). Are these now the variables that will help hime decide, or is the issue still that reputation/name recognition of the school? Can you clarify? Thanks</p>
<h2>“I also think it’s important to show your kids that it’s a big world out there, and part of that is by steering them to places that have national reputations, where they can go anywhere, versus regional reputations, in which their job focus will have to be in the same region.”</h2>
<p>Well…yes and no. ANYONE can go anywhere, not just students at “top” LACs. College is only four short years–with long winter breaks and summers to travel and do internships, and often an entire junior year to study abroad. These opportunities are not solely the province of students at “elite” schools. It’s up to each individual to take advantage of them.</p>
<p>Also, if we were talking about national versus regional universities I might agree with you on this point (and do agree to some degree about the state schools)–but we are talking about small liberal arts colleges here. The size of these schools, plus the lack of D1 sports or other programs that would draw national media attention, necessarily constrains people’s awareness of their “brands.” I’d argue that pretty much ALL LACs have “regional reputations” to people who live and hire graduates in a specific part of the country. People in Boston may never have heard of Whitman or Pomona, but they probably know Wheaton (MA) and Connecticut College. There IS a big world out there, and it cares little about USNWR rankings or CC or the things we parents of students spend our time here discussing.</p>
<p>Hmm…I am from PA and ds was accepted at half of those schools.</p>
<p>I agree that those groupings of schools have different personalities. It doesn’t mean your son can’t find his place at all of them, but a point to consider. The PA schools are known to be preppy, Greek and more pre-professional. Does your son have an intended major? Does he care about being around “his kind of people”? The PA schools do tend to be more regional, but have great reputations, especially if you want to live in the area after graduation. </p>
<p>If your son is out of the box creative and has always thought differently than those kids in high school, he may be better fit for the midwest schools. My son has a great need to meet a diverse group of people. His intellectual needs are great (I don’t mean academic). He is definitely an out of the box thinker. He chose a midwest school. The only PA school he did apply to was Dickinson. The others were too preppy/pre-professional for him. </p>
<p>If your son has put a lot of thought into the process and has visited and participated in the schools’ facebook pages, it shouldn’t be so difficult. These kids will find their place, no matter where they end up.</p>
<p>To add to my point, I happened to see a “latest post” come up on “what is the reputation of the schools in your state?” and browsed randomly through a few pages of comments. These are opinions of people FROM the states where colleges are located. Here are just a few that support the point I was trying to make:</p>
<p>"Massachusetts, from what I’ve seen:</p>
<p>Amherst- Its prestige is not really known by many, but is respected by those who do."</p>
<p>"Connecticut…</p>
<p>Wesleyan: Well respected but no one knows too much about it."</p>
<p>"Maine:</p>
<p>Bates. School for rich kids who attended boarding schools throughout New England. Even if you meet or exceed their admissions criteria, you will be denied if you ‘require too much financial aid’. </p>
<p>Colby. Another rich-kid private college, but one that carries almost no name recognition."</p>
<p>…you get the idea. I know this is completely anecdotal, but so are the claims being made by those who say national reputation is everything and the top LACs offer an advantage in this area. I just don’t think the facts would bear that out.</p>
<p>Back to the OP: I think it really does come down to fit, and how far away from home your son feels comfortable being. The Midwest is a welcoming place for the most part, and the three colleges that might have been the wait-list option are great choices if he wants to go farther from home. But if he wants some of the traditions and culture of the PA schools (Greek life and so on) he should not feel that he is taking a lesser path to attend one of them.</p>
<p>I think Pizzagirl has a point or two about being national vs regional. My D chose WashU over Stanford. I live in the South. People here have never heard of WashU. They thought it’s some school in Seattle or Washington DC. She probably won’t be able to get a job here after graduation. So… I did “lose” my bragging right and will “lose” a D. That’s double whammy!</p>