Again, and we can all bring up exceptions to the rules (so and so had this major or was a college drop out) and I never said not to not major in them - you took the quote out of context. What I said was I would not take loans to major in them and I also said I wouldn’t take parent plus loans to major in anything (even engineering, accounting, etc).
The reality is - these majors will often be underemployed.
I did not say not to pursue the major they want - but merely to find a school that works financially.
In fact, this is what I said: by the #s, those majors aren’t going to be worthy of spending extra where there are lower cost options available.
And such as Truman State that I mentioned in my first post and someone else confirmed - there are lower cost options available that hopefully won’t cause OP financial strain well into the future. Frankly, no family should ever have to put themselves out financially to the point that their lives are severely altered in search of education, especially given there are various alternatives available. At least that’s my belief. We’ve lived in such a booming economy for so long - we don’t realize what happens if - one can’t find a job, one can’t pay their bills. Going to the “right” college is no guarantee of future success - and plenty of lower cost alternatives can turn out to be the “right” college for a family as well.
If one already has a tight budget due to their finances, they certainly shouldn’t exacerbate that situation with further loans and especially parent plus loans. Now OPs situation may or may not be the norm and they have a 529- but there are schools to be had within their budget and if going above required loans, I would not recommend doing so.
That’s all I said. I did not say the student should not pursue the major of their desire.
Some other schools that you may want to think about that seem to offer the combination of studies that your daughter seeks that would also be likely to give generous merit and/or generous financial aid are:
Bradley (IL): About 4300 undergrads and offers majors in art, animation, and creative writing.
Creighton (NE): About 4500 undergrads offers both a BA and BFA in Studio Art as well as a BA in Graphic Design and Film, which includes animation.
Drury (MO): About 1300 undergrads with majors in fine arts, Graphic & Digital Media, Digital Media, and writing.
Elmhurst (IL): About 2900 undergrads and offers majors in studio arts, digital media, and offers a writing concentration within its English major.
Grinnell (IA): About 1700 undergrads and offers majors in digital studies and studio art as well as many options to explore creative writing.
Hamline (MN): About 1800 undergrads and offers a studio and digital arts major with concentrations in fine arts, graphic and interactive design, and media arts. There’s both a BA concentration in Creative Writing as well as a BFA in creative writing if she prefers. There’s also a minor in digital storytelling. Hamline is part of the Twin Cities consortium where she could take classes at other area schools. @fiftyfity1 may be able to provide more context on the surrounds and whether this is “in the middle of a big city” or not.
Lake Forest (IL): About 1700 undergrads just outside of Chicago. Offers studio art and creative writing majors as well as a minor in digital media design.
Lawrence (WI): About 1500 undergrads. Offers some animation classes within its studio art and film majors. Also offers a concentration in creative writing within its English major (or on its own as a minor).
Luther (IA): About 1700 undergrads. Offers majors in studio art and visual communication.
I don’t have sufficient time to confirm the majors at these other schools, but I’d recommend looking into them as well:
Macalester (MN): About 2200 undergrads
Oberlin (OH): About 2900 undergrads
St. Olaf (MN): About 3k undergrads, also has cross-registration with Carleton, which is about a mile down the road
Probably repeating what’s been said since I didn’t realize the thread had moved, but here it goes:
I’d add Grinnell to the mix. Not sure on the exact majors. Kenyon, Oberlin might be worth a look too. Possibly Dickinson on the target/low target side? I seem to know w several artsy kids there.
That $65K is not a hard and fast rule…for example they take family size into account, among other things. Because your EFC is near 0, I would still encourage your student to at least consider Questbridge. It can be a powerful admissions tool.
There is no reason for her to take both the SAT/ACT. Because she did relatively better on the Pre ACT than PSAT, I would just focus on the ACT.
OP, your situation is a bit like mine. My kid also has fairly high stats and intends to major in in studio art (with the possibility of adding a second major). We’ll also be reliant on financial aid packages and merit aid at several schools. Anyhow, here’s my thread, which may have a little overlap with yours: Studio/Visual Art at Elite LACs? Note that we’ve continued to reshape our approach based on various schools NPCs. (I’ve run so many NPCs.) Also, I’m new to the current and uneasy world of college admissions, so feel free to discount anything I write!
Animation is not a discipline that many LACs seem to cover in any depth, even the ones known for having strong art departments. If animation is important to your kid, you may have to look at larger universities and/or art schools.
In terms of additional schools to consider . . . I’d look at Kenyon, which reputedly has strong creative writing and studio art programs and offers merit aid.
Skidmore also seems to have a fairly robust studio art program and even offers a couple animation classes. Skidmore’s NPC for us is significantly better than many elite schools with much bigger endowments. But Skidmore also has a budding reputation for rejecting high-stats students who need financial aid in regular decision.
And Scripps has moved up our own list a bit. It’s got a reputedly strong studio art program, has access to the 5C consortium, and offers merit aid. Personally, I’d consider Claremont’s dry heat much more comfortable than the Midwest’s quasi-humid warmth. But I’m from California, so 80 degrees with any humidity feels much hotter to me than 100 degrees of dry heat. YMMV.
@TonyGrace, one of her brothers goes to Williams, and although she’s loosely considering it, I think she’d prefer to go her own way. That being said, Williams is a great a great choice if anyone else is reading this thread. Very generous financial aid, high priority on underserved and first gen, no loans in their FA packages. He is thriving there, despite the remote location.
Thank you to everyone for all of the great suggestions, I appreciate everyone’s input. I will report back as we narrow things down and maybe ask for more thoughts.
Also a huge THANKS for the reminder that Questbridge cutoff is $65K, because although we didn’t qualify with her oldest brother, it is now a possibility. I hadn’t considered it because we used to make too much.
@BentWookie, I am going to look at that thread you linked. Thanks.
With respect to studio arts, you may want to consider facilities. As examples, a CC contributor posted these photos, with interesting captions, in another topic: Studio/Visual Art at Elite LACs? - #46 by apple23. Not incidentally, Kenyon might make a nice addition to your daughter’s list.
As a statistical method for evaluating studio art programs, you may want to to consider the size of the arts community by viewing the number of graduating majors in a recent year. IPEDS is a good source for this. As examples, Lewis and Clark shows 9 in “Fine/Studio Arts, General” and Bowdoin shows 5 (see links, below). When comparing colleges in this way, note that some appear to combine the figures for studio art majors with those for art history majors under “Art/Art Studies, General,” and should be evaluated accordingly. With respect to studio art specifically, while higher figures generally indicate a stronger arts community than lower ones, amounts greater than, say, the mid to upper teens probably have exceeded the point of diminishing returns.
Wesleyan is effectively a “no-loan” college with a no-loan policy for U.S. citizens and permanent residents, undocumented students and DACA students earning less than $120K a year and assets of $400K or less.
Are retirement assets excluded from the $400k limit on assets with respect to no loans? Many families with college-aged kids aren’t that far off from retirement, and if a family earning $110k only has $400k of assets, retirement could be iffy. Alternatively (or additionally), if they’re including home equity in that asset number, then they’re really looking at families with little savings.
Not to impugn your recommendation or Kenyon – great school – but if the OP is concerned about Earlham’s surroundings, they might be wary of Kenyon’s as well.
This is an issue that I’ve been wrangling with, although I haven’t reached any conclusions. (And ultimately, my kid’s conclusions, not mine, will be the ones that matter.) I presume it’s good for a student-artist to have a critical mass of peers, but how many depends on the kid. Five per class roughly equates to 20 in the school overall. That might make for a tight-knit community of student artists in which many kids would thrive. Others might want a much bigger, more diverse community of artists. And, of course, more students generally equates to more courses. On the other hand, Bowdoin has 8 art professors for approximately 20 art majors, a better ratio than many other schools. That might mean that Bowdoin art students get more attention and mentorship from their professors.
Anyhow, I can talk myself into knots discussing the pros and cons of class size. I’m hoping to convince my daughter to arrange a call or two with actual art students at schools like Bowdoin to get their take.
The detail can be distracting, so I don’t always mention it, but IPEDS figures are for “first majors.” The actual number of majors may be greater, and minors are not counted at all. Year-to-year variations also may be significant. As you indicated, these figures, while potentially important, are best considered in the context of other information and direct experience. As an opinion, I’d say IPEDS figures represent a good reason to draw a student toward a program (in cases in which they are high), but should not be sufficient, by themselves, to deter a student from considering a school (in cases in which they are low). Nonetheless, very low figures might represent a reason for hesitation (to the extent that a level for this can be defined).