Help in a decision to make

Colleges and Universities A-Z Air Force Academy - Colorado Springs
1

<p>Hello all. My name is Cal Szur and I recently been offered an appointment by the AFA for the class of 2012. And Im really excited. </p>

<p>But I’m also arriving at a dilemma. As advised I applied and received a ROTC scholarship for LSU. Between the ROTC and TOPS (an instate tuition assistance program), I can go to college completely free and have enough money to live off of (Food, gas, entertainment, etc.). I’d never have to work. The deal was laid out for me by an LSU recruiter and it is very good. I’ve been accepted into the Honors college as well. </p>

<p>My dilemma is this: I am undecided about which would be the better option for myself: Academy or conventional. </p>

<p>I could go to the Academy and love it; I have also heard stories of graduates who were bitter about missing a normal college life. </p>

<p>I could go to the conventional and enjoy semi-civilian life; but I might always look back and wonder about the Academy and the challenge it presented. </p>

<p>Half of the people I ask push me towards LSU; they tell me a real college experience is once in a lifetime, just like the Academy. They tell me that many very successful officers come from ROTC. They believe I don’t need the extra discipline the academy gives and would simply be putting too much pressure on myself for no real reason. </p>

<p>The other half can’t understand why I don’t take the Academy offer immediately. They believe the Academy is definately the way to go, and cant be beat. </p>

<p>I have heard the pros and cons so much, I can recite them. </p>

<p>What I’m asking for is simply for someone who was in my situation to tell me what they chose and why. What pushed them or someone they were close to in my situation towards one way or the other. </p>

<p>It would really be appreciated, thank you in advance!</p>

2

<p>I was faced with the same dilemna as a type 1 AFROTC scholarship was very enticing to Purdue, but for me it was really a matter of what I have always wanted, and althought both lifestyles will differ drastically, I prefer the tight knit group that the Academy has to offer. Not to put the Academy over ROTC just that the experience seemed more suitable for my taste, either way you'll graduate in 4 years with the same insignia on your shoulders, just a different route to get there...</p>

<p>Coming from a 2012 appointee that accepted his appt the day it came... ;)</p>

<p>Best of luck! :)</p>

3

<p>You are very lucky as you have the best of both worlds. I think you already know the answer, but always follow your intuition.</p>

4

<p>Are you going to go to orientation? That may clear up a lot of things for you and allow you to get a better taste for the atmosphere of the place. Last year before Summer Semminar I was kinda iffy on whether I wanted to go or not. After going, it helped seal the deal and now I'm counting down the days until I-day like all the other 2012'ers.</p>

<p>Good luck with your choice. :)</p>

5

<p>Another set of opportunities await here. For example, where else can you be fully funded to go to Indonesia, Israel, Japan, Morocco, Spain, China, etc.? I went to Japan and spent 0 of my money for spring break and I'm going to Israel for 3 weeks this summer with the same deal. Chances are that ROTC is not going to have those chances as easily as USAFA. That's only one example with others like jump and soaring. We may work hard, but we play just as hard too.</p>

6

<p>You know, I went through the same thought process. Ultimately I decided the Academy was what I worked so hard to get accepted, and what will be so hard to actually make it to graduation day. The "normal" college life seemed very enticing to me because it offers so much freedom as opposed to the Academy. I never considered myself a tough-guy (especially after hearing some war stories from different veterans) but I really wanted the challenge the Academy offers. I have a feeling I'll love being there (hopefully most of the time) and at other times I won't be able to stand it.</p>

<p>In my young and naive opinion, yeah there are things at the Academy you can do that you possibly can't at an ROTC university (Ops Air Force, parachuting, soaring... etc.). However, there are things with ROTC that you can't have at the Academy (seeing family and friends, and to some it's worth more being with them than it is going to a foreign country; also having a somewhat normal social life). Either option gets you the same old butter bar from what I understand. Academy or ROTC, either is a fantastic decision. Great officers come from both commissioning sources. Work your ABSOLUTE HARDEST in either option and you're likely to get what you want, it all depends on MOTIVATION. When you're unsure if you made the right decision, you start to forget that.</p>

<p>It definitely won't hurt to go to orientation.</p>

7

<p>It's all about priorities. I can always call my family (which I do often). Can't do other things. But that's my priority and I made my choice based on it.</p>

8

<p>Well, I think I might be a little biased in favor of USAFA...
Both options are great. AFROTC commissions a lot of great officers, as does USAFA. </p>

<p>What is it that YOU want to do? </p>

<p>I think this thread addressed a lot of the regular concerns.
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/air-force-academy-colorado-springs/456499-wise-advice-usna-grad.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/air-force-academy-colorado-springs/456499-wise-advice-usna-grad.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

9

<p>Let me take you through my son's experience. He received Army ROTC at Indiana, a scholarship for room and board, and a job offer on campus. His desired major is East Asian Languages and Cultures-Chinese. He's been directly admitted to the department. His goal is to continue his Chinese and learn Russian and Finnish. Army ROTC also just awarded him a scholarship to participate in a flagship strategic language and culture progam this summer (25 cadets awarded) at Indiana to study Russian for two months and more money to study Russian next year. So that package is awesome.</p>

<p>He has had a dream of attending an academy since 8th grade. For whatever were his reasons, he fell in love with USAFA over WP during summer seminar. He wanted to attend USAFA so the application started. Throughout the entire process this decision weighed on him heavily. He had the Indiana offer in hand since September, but what about USAFA? Three times he came to me and told me he had decided on IU. Twice he told me he had decided on USAFA. I told him to wait and see what happened.</p>

<p>He returned from a trip last week, knowing IU was his choice. The major course of study was exactly what he wanted and he wouldn't get that from USAFA. Fortunately for him, the letter came putting him into that national pool who qualify, had nominations, but were not given an appointment.</p>

<p>He was disappointed for a brief 1 second, and then the biggest smile came onto his face. He is thrilled! He definitely made the right decision, even though it was about to be made for him anyway.</p>

<p>What is it that you want from your major course of study? My son knew that IU offered him exactly what he wanted and more. And knowing that IU was become the Army's school of choice for languages was a huge draw. He did not have dreams of being a pilot. USAFA would not offer that same language and culture environment he needed. He knew the academy vs college life was not the issue. It rarely came up in our discussions. It was courses and major that was most important.</p>

<p>Take the lifestyle out of the equation and look at the courses you'll take and the major you will end up with. Also, which letter excited you more when you opened the envelope.? If one didn't give you chills of anticipation as you ripped it open, you might have your answer.</p>

10

<p>DS decided before he heard from the AFA (still waiting). It will not matter to him because he decided to go ROTC.</p>

<p>He was exactly like singapore's son. In the end it was that he loves the university he has chosen. He wanted the major all along, and applied for that to every college, accepted to all of them except ND(found out yesterday, wasn't upset because he decided to just throw in his hat for it --no intention of ever going). DS never wanted to take any engineering courses or degrees. I think when we downloaded the syllabus and he saw it, he really started to have 2nd thoughts, then when his ROTC chances of flying fell into place he knew for sure. </p>

<p>A couple of things to really think about:
1. Do you want to live that lifestyle? Or are you going to say I hate breathing and eating AF 24/7?
2. Will you enjoy the courses that are you going to take, and are you strong enough to pass them? I say this because that is why the AFA has such high SAT/ACT scores and gpa's. If you feel you are not strong enough in Math, you might be miserable and constantly worrying about Academic probation
3. How will you feel about being so far a way from home?
4. What is the true reason you are going, do you feel this is the only place to get it?</p>

<p>As far as the tight knit community, it also exists in ROTC, when Bullet went, the people we always socialized with were his ROTC friends, and his roommates when he got an apt, were all ROTC. His ROTC friends also attended are wedding. You will find the AF is a close community in the flying world, it is a different life and you will hang with people that you have commonality with.</p>

<p>Nobody can help you with your decision...it is a personal one. DS's det commander said it the best, if after a yr., you decide you want the AFA then reapply next yr. This can also be said for the AFA, if it isn't your cup of tea, you can transfer out next yr. This is a fork in the road, but whichever direction you take it is not a dead end.</p>

<p>Truly for DS it was the fact that he had a 90% chance for a flying slot, at ROTC that made him feel comfortable with his decision. He wants to fly, but he also doesn't want to be miserable in classes for 4 yrs, thus the education took a higher place in his decision.</p>

<p>Side note, the last shuttle that just landed had an F-15E pilot who graduated through ROTC. The next one will have another F-15E (WSO this time) who graduated from ND in ROTC.</p>

<p>I also know LSU is a very large det., and typically larger dets are close knit.</p>

<p>Good luck, either way you go it will be the right one, just listen to your gut...or as I did to our DS, both things are equal, which one do you want you have 10 sec. to answer..he didn't say AFA, that's why we are doing ROTC</p>

11

<p>In the words of one of my buddies who was offered the same deal to LSU, "I just wanted the challenges the Academy offered. If [CCCS208] wants to push himself farther than ever before, and to greatness, then choose the Academy." I'm not going to include what he said about ROTC...;)</p>

<p>It is your own personal decision though. It's good that you aren't letting other people make the decision for you. Good luck.</p>

12

<p>Like Falcons '11 said. It's going to be your own personal decision. We can only give our own interpretations. Mine is that I love the academy so my views are going to be skewed. </p>

<p>My ideals are that if you want to go to school to get your degree then go to ROTC. If you want to go to school to be in the military then go to the Academy. I feel as if the reason you are going to ROTC is because you want to be in the military and be an officer, but that is the whole reason the Academy exists. It is a leadership lab to try and make you become a better officer while challenging you in all aspects of your life. </p>

<p>Granted the academy does not have many of your fuzzy degrees, so I would suggest going to ROTC for most arts and english majors. But it's hard to find a better engineering program in the country. Also an added plus is the government funding for any machines needed for you major (incredible technology). </p>

<p>It's up to you though. You have to live with your decision</p>

13

<p>Chiming in again, GroogWaugh is absolutely right, there is no better engineering degree for someone who knows they want a military career than the AFA. This would be why the Academy is known as "The little engineering school in the rockies. If engineering is not your thing, remember there are course requirements and you need to look at them to see if these classes interest you.</p>

<p>I do disagree with only one thing,
[quote]
If you want to go to school to be in the military then go to the Academy

[/quote]
There are many ROTC members who do want to make the military a career, and actually studies are now showing that more ROTC stay pass their obligation. There are many ROTC grads that have very successful careers... our DO is a ROTC grad, our Vice Wing King is also (Vice is a BPZ and will definetely be a flag officer). It is the qualities within yourself that will make or break you.</p>

<p>I am glad that so many of you love the AFA because it is a great school. </p>

<p>I am also happy that we all respect the fact that it is a personal decision and that you understand you will all pin on butter bars at the same time...nobody on AD after Capt. even discusses the SA/ROTC with any competitiveness. When you become AD it is what you actually do as an officer that matters.</p>

14

<p>Wow, this is really something. I didn't honestly expect this much information, and its great! </p>

<p>I do know the decision is only for me to make (that's kinda what sucks about it) but I just wanted to hear the stories of others who had some experience with it. </p>

<p>This really was a pleasent surprise, thank you everyone for giving your two cents, I took every bit of it in.</p>

15

<p>Another question: has anyone ever encountered a graduate of a Service Academy that was bitter about their experience?</p>

16

<p>i wouldn't say bitter. i know someone who graduated from here, and doesn't have the fondest memories of it. the military simply was not for him, so going here was not the best choice for him. yet that being said (and he got out after the requied years), he did enjoy certain opportunities he recieved here, such as travel. so while he wouldn't do it again, he wouldn't do ROTC either. everyone else i talk to says they have 2nd thoughts, but ultimately are glad they did. it usually comes down to this:</p>

<p>great place to be from, not a great place to go</p>

<p>basically there are times who hate yourself for the decision, but looking at the big picture, i wouldn't change it for really anything</p>

17

<p>We actually just returned from a retirement of an AFA grad today. He had all of the traditional pics...he played football for the Falcons from 84-88. I thin his only regret that he had with AFA was that by playing football he messed up his knee, but then again he is now going to have disability pay so it wasn't bad in that sit.</p>

<p>There are people who will walk out bitter, but I do agree, I think they would be the same who were not happy with ROTC.</p>

<p>At the retirement ceremony we were laughing because as the cadets begin to arrive in June, we will be in full swing of retirement ceremonies for AFA grads from 20 yrs ago. So if you decide to go, just take in a deep breath and look around, because the time will fly.</p>

18

<p>My thought process was "USAFA will be a real challenge, and I don't want to look back in 20 years and say 'I wonder if...'" Factors such as majors (I was looking into aero or military strategic studies), training, odds of getting into UPT (a vision waiver or PRK is in order, in my case), a close-knit community, and finances (my ROTC offer was not quite as good, and the cost of living at my 2nd choice was significant).</p>

<p>What factors do you feel will be important to you in the next four years? My biggest ones were personal challenge/growth, opportunity (you get some rather unique ones here!), and preparation for the USAF (and hopefully a pilot slot).]</p>

<p>I do not recall meeting any truly bitter grads. Perhaps a few that would have taken a different route, but not any that were like "I hate that place, and wish I had never been there!"</p>

19

<p>I might be off target on this, but I don't think you will meet AFA grads that are bitter. The ones that don't fit most likely leave, of course some will also leave for grades and medical purposes, but we know only of the ones that left voluntarily. They harbored no anger towards the AFA they acknowledged it wasn't what was best for them. I think this also explains why they lose a 1/4 of the class by grad.</p>

<p>I remember during the fall watching the series on the military channel and they said statistically 5% drop out of the SA after BCT. At the time I thought that was high, but now I realize as you read through threads that many people keep their back-up plan open, and thus if they drop then they can attend their second choice. I am not sure how I feel about that, because that is a heck of a summer vacation to endure :D. Yet, I do realize that they had decided not to stay because they got a gimpse of what their next 4 yrs, and nothing shocks your system more than reality!</p>

<p>Just remember, either path is not a dead end and you can always re-visit your decision next year if it was not a good fit this year. That is at least what we said to DS and the det commander told him the same thing.</p>

20

<p>i am in almost your exact situation. My rotc offer is exactly the same at a different school. job, extra money in pocket. no costs and money to buy toys "motorcycle". and then i have a falcon foundation opportunity. I am deciding as well. It is very difficult. Both situations involve 5years. AFA 4+1 at prep school or 5 years rotc because of my major. I know I can excel at ROTC and be at the top and still have a little freedom. But the opportunities at the academy appeal to me as well.</p>

<p>For eagle raimus or hornet what are the requirements for the flying team.</p>

<p>Let me know what you decide. Good Luck</p>