help! liberal arts vs. arts college?

College Majors Visual Arts and Film Majors
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<p>hi, i m going into senior year this sept. and i am really confused about which unis to apply to.. first of all, i am really really interested in art and design and i am kind of sure that i want a career related to it, well at least i want to study it in college...but i am also equally good in my other subjects like math and biology and i m not sure about giving them up and going to a specialised art school...</p>

<p>i am thinking if its possible for me to go to a liberal arts school like umich and major in art for undergrad years and then transferring to a more specialised art school like pratt or RISD..but i m not sure of the chances they would accept... is this a good idea at all? </p>

<p>i am VERY confused if i should plunge right into an art school after graduation or not.. because im afraid that it would be too focused in art.. but if i go to a liberal arts school it may be the opposite and i owuld have less experience like internships and stuff...</p>

<p>thankyou for reading, please give some advice! thanks</p>

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<p>
[quote]
i am thinking if its possible for me to go to a liberal arts school like umich and major in art for undergrad years and then transferring to a more specialised art school like pratt or RISD..but i m not sure of the chances they would accept... is this a good idea at all?

[/quote]
It happens all the time. Lots of people get an MFA at Pratt or RISD who did not go to an art school as an undergrad. Of course, you still have to get into the art school based on your portfolio above all.</p>

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<p>I agree with Mackinaw. In addition, a number of liberal arts schools also have art such as Skidmore, Alfred University, Bard et al. Thus, you can get the best of both worlds. However, be adised that no liberal arts school, in my opinion, will give you as strong an art training as you would get in either Pratt or RISD, or MICA etc. In addition, few of the
LACs have decent design programs such as New Media or graphic design other than Alfred University and maybe Skidmore, although Bard has an interesting Electronic Arts program.</p>

<p>You might want to also consider some universities with strong art programs that will give you other options as well such as RIT, Syracuse, Tufts, Brown, Cornell and a number of others.</p>

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<p>cmkm, There's really no right answer. You have to choose the path that's right for YOU. Many people who have successful arts-related careers have liberal arts degrees and many went directly from high school to art school. At this point, you should consider both routes. Remember you won't have to make a final decision until April 06, so don't feel pressured. Research, visit as many as you can, apply to a range of both art schools and liberal arts programs. Be sure to include a range of selectivity.</p>

<p>My son is a talented artist but he decided to go to a liberal arts college, with the intension of going on for professional training post graduation. Whether this will be fine arts or art history related remains to be seen, but as he enters his junior year he's leaning toward a graduate degree in architecture.</p>

<p>I think one question that you could ask yourself when you're choosing colleges to apply to is "What kind of people do I want to be surrounded by?" At an art school your peers will be thinking, breathing art and design 24/7. At a university or liberal arts college you will have friends who are biology majors, math majors, history majors, etc. etc. AND studio arts majors. Neither is better than the other; just different.</p>

<p>If you live in Michigan, you are lucky to have a state university that has an excellent liberal arts school and a good art school. (I'm a UMich alum, myself -- but in art history, not studio art.)</p>

<p>These are some smaller liberal arts colleges that have good studio art departments that my son considered: Williams, Wesleyan, Skidmore, Conn College, Kenyon, Hamilton. Brown and Yale are also excellent among the ivy league. If you do well in your undergraduate program and prepare a sound portfolio you will be a reasonable candidate for RISD or Pratt postgraduate work. Williams, which is the school I'm most familiar with, has an excellent career counseling service and internships in arts related organizations are common. I'm sure the same could be said about most colleges.</p>

<p>I would stress however that few of these (as taxguy points out) are particularly strong in design. If you're interested in painting, drawing, sculpture or to some extent film or video, then an LAC would be appropriate. If you're interested in design, then you'd better look at art schools or large universities.</p>

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<p>I don't know if this compares exactly, but my flute teacher says emphatically that she's glad she went to a university before entering a music conservatory for her masters. She needed to get out on her own in the world, learn to care for herself and face the diverse human population. Then she could retreat comfortably into the San Francisco Conservatory with full knowledge of what a small bubble it is. She felt really sorry for the incoming undergrad Freshmen, who were really "clueless" (her word). Didn't know how to take care of themselves, what the world was really like, etc.</p>

<p>I see nothing wrong with starting out at a general place and then moving to a specialized institution. It's actually a really good idea, IMO, because you get the experience of a big school before immersing yourself completely in the art bubble.</p>

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<p>thanks very much for all your advice. i guess i will keep my options open for a while. And I also have to decide what i really want in terms of courses and the people that would be around me. though I think I am leaning to a more general place like tkm256 said. Could anyone give some suggestions of good LACs that are strong in art and design? or good reasons of going to a specialized art school..
thanks again!</p>

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<p>Here is a somewhat random list of Lac's with good art programs.
Wesleyan, Hamilton, Skidmore, Vassar, Kalamazoo College, Syracuse University, Wash U St Louis, Carnegie Mellon, Cornell, Brown, Kenyon, Bennington.
Also Tufts is affiliated with The School of the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston. I believe they allow for some cross registration and also they have a double major program were you can get two degrees in 5 years or something...i don't know much about it.
If you do lean towards an art school consider schools that have good cross registration programs with lacs in the area for example RISD and brown have cross registration and MassArt has cross registration with Simmons, Emmanuel, Wentworth, MIT and more...I took a class at MIT last semester and it was amazing.<br>
Keep you options open and you could have your cake and eat it too. :)</p>

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<p>I did look into the combined program with Tufts and Museum School,which looked great. However, you must be separately admitted to each school if you want the 5 year joint BA/BFA degree. I think you have to take 18 liberal arts courses at Tufts. It is my understanding that where you take the majority of your courses during the semester determines which school's tuition rate applies.</p>

<p>You also can live in Tufts dorms as long as your are an admitted student to Tufts, according to the Tufts Admission's officer. </p>

<p>I also spoke to the admission's officer at both Tufts and Museum School in order to see if it would be a bit easier getting into Tufts if someone applies under the 5 year program. I was told that they don't really make it easier. They told me that ," You have to be admitted as if you weren't applying to the program." The Admission's officer at the Museum School noted that sometimes the Museum School does mention that they want a child and will try to go to bat for that student with Tufts. However, this is a rare situation and the student must not only have examplary talent but must at least be close to what Tufts would have admitted anyway. </p>

<p>Also, you take all your art courses at the Museum school, which, from what I can understand, is a 15-25 minute bus ride each way!</p>

<p>If you are interested in this program, give both schools a call.</p>

<p>By the way, when you complete the program, you do get a Tufts degree.</p>

<p>This is all that I know about the program. You would need to contact each school for more information in case I misunderstood something.</p>

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<p>I just realized that new school university...parsons and eugene lang college have a joint program too, and while i don't know much about it i would be interested if anyone has any info</p>

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<p>As a future tuition paying parent, I struggled with this question. My D has excelled in art and academics. My W and I reasoned that the LAC was the best of both worlds; our D thought otherwise. After visiting many pure arts schools and receiving portfolio feedback, we are deferring to her. I do think the liberal arts component is better at the more selective art schools (MICA and RSDI) than most.</p>

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<p>If you're considering universities, you might want to look into whether they have smaller learning communities or shared interest housing. My d wanted to go to a university and chose RIT because she liked the design curriculum and the people she dealt with. She chose to live in the ArtHouse, which is a dorm floor consisting of students with an interest in art (there is also a Photo House). Many on her floor are design students but there are photo majors, illustration majors, New Media, Animation and engineering students. They are all dealing with the intense foundation year classes and the hours that requires. They share a studio located on their floor and they are often up late at night, working on projects TOGETHER. So although she's at a university and associating with all types of majors, she is living in a smaller community, surrounded by other art students. Their work schedule is the same so they share the same misery (17-18 credits per qtr). At RIT, you can also choose to request a roommate with the same major but live in the other dorms... </p>

<p>I believe Syracuse had an art learning community. Not sure about CMU... I think this setup has helped her transition to college. She did comment that she's glad she's not with her friends at their colleges - that they would never understand her crazy workload. She's in class 27 hrs/week compared to their 15 hrs/week...</p>

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<p>I’ve been following the discussions about LAC’s that also have good art departments and, after following up on most of the school mentioned, I’m a bit mystified by many of the recommendations.</p>

<p>From what I’ve been able to gather from reading on-line catalogs, the better LAC’s that have BA’s in Art such as Wesleyan, Skidmore, Kenyon, Hamilton, Bennington, Vassar, Oberlin, and Williams offer relatively few art courses and rarely more than two levels in a discipline (i.e., Drawing I and Drawing II, Painting I and Painting II). Of the other schools mentioned in this thread, Tufts offers no studio art courses on campus. All the studio courses for the BFA degree it offers are located at the School of the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston. Brown offers a wider variety of courses (23) than most, but the two levels in a discipline rule holds here also (though cross registration for a few courses at RISD is possible). Yale offers a wider selection of courses (36) than Brown and goes beyond the two level rule in a number of disciplines. Connecticut College, interestingly, offers the widest selection of courses (38) and goes beyond the two level rule in most disciplines.</p>

<p>Better LAC’s that offer BFA’s, on the other hand, do seem to offer the breadth and depth in art that a student looking for pre-professional training in the arts would want, and the liberal arts courses as well. These schools include the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, the University of Wisconsin in Madison, the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, Washington University in St. Louis, Cornell, Carnegie Mellon, and Syracuse. Good schools all, with Wash U probably the top end academically and Syracuse the bottom.</p>

<p>My conclusion is that better LACs that offer BFA’s, are a better bet for students who want strong art programs and strong liberal arts programs as well. Most of the better LACs that offer a BA in Art do not have the breadth and depth in art that a student looking for pre-professional training in the arts would want. The exceptions are Brown, Yale, and Connecticut College. The catch here, of course, is that Brown and Yale are Ivies and damned difficult to get into. Connecticut College, although not as well-known as Brown and Yale, is a highly selective (35% acceptance rate and median SATs around 1350), mid-sized college just a step below schools like Wesleyan and Amherst in academic rigor.</p>

<p>Going back to the issue I raised in my first paragraph, if what I’ve found out is accurate, why suggest a Wesleyan or a Skidmore or a similar school when none seem to have breadth and depth in their art offerings? Unless these schools have a terrific art faculty or some other advantage to recommend them, doesn’t it make more sense to look at the LAC’s that offer BFA’s?</p>

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<p>You mentioned Syracuse University. It has a very strong, well rated art school and has decent academics with its School of Communications and Maxwell School. Take a look at their art program. It is quite extensive.</p>

<p>You also didn't mention Alfred University. It is a relatively small LAC of about 2200 kids,but has a very highly rated art program, especially for anything related to ceramics. In addition, their School of Art is partly subsidized by NY,which means a bit lower tuition than for other schools at Alfred.</p>

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<p>Hi Taxguy,</p>

<p>You're right about Syracuse. The art school is good, as are Maxwell (Public Affairs) and Newhouse (Communications). The College of Arts and Sciences is just OK though. Alfred I don't know enough to comment on.</p>

<p>By the way, if you take a look at the selective and moderately selective colleges and universities, you'll discover dozens if not hundreds of BFA programs. Almost every major state school has one - University of Maryland, University of Delaware, Penn State, SUNY Binghamton, UMass, Ohio State, University of Illinois, The College of New Jersey, Rutgers, etc. Many smaller state schools also offer BFA's as do many of the selective and moderately selective private colleges and universities. There's a ton of programs out there. The problem is finding out which ones are decent.</p>

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<p>ampron2x, I think the first decision is whether to go to an art school per se or a college or university at which studio art is one department of many. I don’t mean to make a value judgment on one over the other. My husband went to art school and enjoyed it enormously. My son is studying art and art history at a small liberal arts college. They are both goods routes. I’d say the major difference is that at the art school, everyone will be concentrating on art, 24/7. At a college or university you’ll have friends and colleagues involved in a wide range of academic subjects. Although pure vocational training – especially in design -- is more accessible at an art school, many, many kids graduate from “full service” colleges and go on to successful careers in art related fields like architecture, advertising, design.</p>

<p>If, for whatever reason, you’ve chosen NOT to go to an art school, then you need to think about what college or university is best for you. In addition to looking at the individual art department e.g. faculty, course, facilities, you need to consider other factors like location, size, ambience etc., just as a biology or English major would.</p>

<p>The term LAC is generally applied to smaller colleges that don’t offer a wide range of graduate degrees. Thus, even though universities like Michigan, Wisconsin and the others you’ve listed do offer a liberal arts education they aren’t strictly LACs. Being large, multifaceted organizations they have the resources to offer a wide range of courses. Same for the ivy league, though as you mention, selectivity is fierce. These are great schools, but don’t fill the bill for someone who doesn’t want a large school or doesn’t have the statistics for the ivy league.</p>

<p>For some kids, the small liberal arts college has a lot of appeal – small classes, accessible faculty whose first priority is to teach, nurturing supportive environment, a completely different ambience from a large research university. LACs cover the same gamut of academic rigor and admissions selectivity as larger schools, so it’s difficult to generalize, but if you want small, you can find one that fits you.</p>

<p>It is true at small LACs that the courses offered each semester in ANY discipline are limited; however, most have distribution requirements that require students to take a range of subjects from general categories like humanities, math/science and social studies. Thus over the course of four years each student takes from 16-20 courses in his/her major. There are enough courses available in each major to fill up the available slots and most LACs also offer independent study or honors so that students can supplement their areas of interest if advanced courses aren’t available. LACs with good art departments don’t lack for talent and intensity, but the concept is usually more on diversity than on depth. Kids are encouraged to experiment across media and a lot of focus is put on theory and articulation (plus a balance of the other liberal arts.)</p>

<p>Conn College is a special case in the LAC category because it offers an undergraduate degree in architecture and thus has more course offerings than a typical LAC of its size.</p>

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<p>Check out this link to the distribution of the 2004/2005 MFA class at Yale: </p>

<p><a href="http://www.yale.edu/art/enrollment.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.yale.edu/art/enrollment.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>This highly slective class is made up of Ivies, Art school kids, LACs and bigger state and private universities. </p>

<p>Point is: with the right mentoring, drive and skill you can succeed at the undergraduate level using any of these paths.</p>

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<p>Momrath and m&sdad,</p>

<p>Thanks for the input. Your points are well taken. However, my son does not want to got to an arts school. He's a very strong student and his interests are too eclectic - it's not just art with him. So, he's looking at LACs and universities with BA and BFA programs. The question we both have - which I didn't make very clear in my original post - is how can we tell whether an art program is good? As I said before, I've taken a good look at the offerings of the LACs and universities mentioned in this thread. Based on on-line catalogs, course lists, and departmental web-sites, most of the LACs that offer BAs seem lacking. On the other hand, most of the universities that offer BFAs seem to be at least comprehensive. The problem, of course, is that catalogs, course lists, and web-sites don't give you any idea of quality. A threadbare catalog may hide an excellent department and a bulging catalog a poor one.</p>

<p>The bottom line here is this: How can you tell which program is good? I understand this may be unanswerable and all we can go on is word of mouth (or word of thread, in this case) or a generally agreed upon reputation, but it would be nice to inject some objective data into the mix so we could make a more informed decision.</p>

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<p>We read faculty bios and, when possible, looked at their artwork. We also inspected ongoing student work. My son lost interest in one school entirely when he looked at the products of the graduating MFA's.</p>

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<p>I am having the exact same problem--deciding between an art school or Umich. Right now, I'm leaning toward Umich, just because I love Ann Arbor and it just feels right. However, I just got accepted to Moore College of Art and Design in Philadelphia, with a hefty scholarship attached. I went to Moore over the summer for their Pre-College program, which was phenomenal, and it would be amazing to go there. I just don't know exactly which place is right yet, but I'm sure my decision will be made clear as all of my thoughts swirl around. I'll also have to wait until all of my financial aid packages come in, as that will be a major factor. Just know that you are not alone! Maybe I'll see you at Umich, if our decisions lean that way!</p>

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<p>The best thing do to is to visit. You’ll be able to get a good feeling just walking around the art school facility: What type of studio space is available? Good light? Well maintained? What about equipment? Does the school offer the opportunity to acquire advanced skills in complicated processes like sculpture or printmaking? </p>

<p>Does the department appear to be well funded? Do you relate to the students’ work? Does the school encourage experimentation? Offer an opportunity to show?</p>

<p>How large are the classes? Are they taught by faculty members or by teaching assistants? </p>

<p>Try to meet with a faculty member to discuss the studio arts program. Some are more process oriented; some more theory. </p>

<p>Peruse the biographies of the faculty. Where did they study? What type of work do they do? Are they practicing artists as well as teachers? Do they show?</p>

<p>Is there a local “arts” scene? Galleries, museums? Lectures, visiting artists? If the school is in a remote area do they go to urban centers (e.g. museums, artists’ studios) on study trips? Take a look at the art history offerings as well.</p>

<p>Does the college career placement service cover opportunities in arts related fields?</p>

<p>As far as choosing between a big University and an LAC, again, the best approach is to visit and see which “feels” right. They each have strengths and weaknesses, but the atmosphere and teaching style is quite different, so I would think that choosing one or the other would be the best starting point. For sure you can get a good studio art education at either one, but some kids are better suited to one, some to the other. Once your son decides whether he wants big or small he can better concentrate on developing a list with range of selectivity within the category. </p>

<p>For LACs especially there are other factors besides the strength of the art department that would need to be considered as small colleges have distinctive personalities. Your son should think about whether he wants in the way of location and ambience and work backward to schools that fit his ideal. My son has been pleased with the studio art department at Williams (though in the end he decided to major in art history) but most importantly he’s been pleased with the whole Williams experience and I think the college’s overall academic and social ambience has been more persuasive than the strength of any individual course or instructor.</p>