<p>Keep in mind that the TAP, Pell and stafford loans are entitlements that would follow the student no matter where she attends (TAP- as long as she attends in NYS). The HEOP funding is $1700 and the lion’s share of the financial aid is coming from NYU, who can spend their funding however they see fit. </p>
<p>I have a student on my caseload (also a pretty high stat low income 1st gen kid) that has been accepted to NYU HEOP, RIT HEOP, Stony Brook EOP, UB EOP and Hopkins.</p>
<p>Yes, students can transfer from one HEOP to another provided the student meets the admissions requirement and there is space in the HEOP program. There is an additional paperwork that has to come from the HEOP/EOP/SEEK or CD coordinator at the previous school.</p>
<p>sybbie, I realize the HEOP funds are grant to the student is small but HEOP was created to provide academic support to those students. Depending on the school, they often attend summer prep progams for free, have free tutoring/ counseling, etc. In other words, the direct funds are a small part of HEOP funding. </p>
<p>The entire philosophy of the program was to support students who were not just low income, but educationally disadvantaged and the HEOP programs say that on their website, referring back to state guidelines. However, not all say exactly what that educational disadvantage is. Some say the students must not be admissable under normal school guidelines. I happen to know that NYU used to publish a max SAT of 1250 for entrance into HEOP but has removed any mention of that on their website. </p>
<p>Has all of that changed and are the schools now allowed to use it to augment financial aid for strong students?</p>
<p>I have seen a lot of changes in HEOP/EOP stats over the past few years. I have mostly seen lop-sided high gpa/slightly lower SAT students accepted to HEOP/EOP. </p>
<p>In recent years I have seen a lot of student accepted mostly in either HEOP or EOP at Stony Brook, with stats which are just a hairline lower than the admitted students profile. The kids from my HS that have been admitted HEOP at NYU have been some students who were financially disadvantaged and not necessarily academically disadvantaged. The student I previously mentioned is also graduating with an advanced regents with honors diploma.</p>
<p>Just recently there have been many HEOP kids that have had some pretty competitive stats.</p>
<p>While some schools still do the 5 week summer programs, many schools now only require a 2 to 3 EOP/HEOP orientation.</p>
<p>2collegewego,
My understanding is that HEOP At NYU is for historically underrepresented and economically disadvantaged students, and they have to meet admission guidelines as regular students, only NYS residents are considered. FA is very good.</p>
<p>milkandsugar, HEOP has always been for NYS residents only and FA was always good. But if they require the students to meet the same admissions guidelines, that is a change based on what the program was years ago. And, based on what Sybbie said, it seems to be a change at many of the schools. To me, it’s sort of a shame because the whole idea was to provide added support to kids who needed it.</p>
<p>I do believe that HEOP still does provide support to those that need it. </p>
<p>Most of the students that I know (not only from my school, but in speaking with my colleagues) are coming from title I schools with dismal 4-6 year graduation rates and regents pass rates. Most of these students have made great strides in schools that are rated C, D, & F and even some phase out schools where many students are not even expected to graduate. All of them are among the first in their family to attend college.</p>
<p>For them, the ability to be accepted through HEOP and have the financial barriers removed, will be indeed become life changing for the student, the family and their peers. Many of my former students in HEOP/EOP have paid it forward big, become leaders on their campuses, and have come back to mentor students in their high schools, letting others know that they are not defined by the projects or their hood. I have a former Posse scholar student, who has graduated and faithfully returns every year to talk about Posse and what it has done for her.</p>
<p>These students have done extremely well in their environment, however there are still some skills that need building.</p>
<p>2collegewego,
HEOP does give great support to very deserving students. I am very famiar with NYU’s HEOP program. I have met some if the current students. They are extremly bright, and are exactly the same as any other NYUstydent. Where they may differ us that they may test lower in SAT’s because research has shown that scores directly correlate to economic advantage. These kids have high GPA’s, excellent ECs, and took the most rigorous classes their school offered. So HEOP is alive and well at NYU. They get great support to succeed.</p>
<p>sybbie, I understand it is great for the individual student (and I don’t begrudge this hardworking student at ALL) but I happen to think that there are a lot of disadvantaged students who need the additional support to graduate. A kid from a disadvantaged background with a rigorous courseload, grades to be accepted at NYU and a 2250 on the SATs can probably succeed at most schools without the additional support and, frankly, would probably be accepted at a number of meet-full-need schools. For a kid with a similar profile and 1500 SATs, that support could make the difference between graduating and not. But I understand what you’re saying and it may indeed be the only way this student could fund NYU. To be fair, it could also be that NYU found that, even with the support, the students with the lower SATs were unable to graduate but I am a bit suspicious that it’s being used to augment NYU’s limited financial aid dollars. </p>
<p>As far as Posse, one of the biggest complaints about it is that it is not targeted to poor kids although there are poor kids who qualify. I won’t criticize it though, because I understand the purpose. I have a minority kid who is attending a top lac and, honestly, it has been a rough road. My kid has had racist things yelled out of cars, gets stopped by store security on a regular basis, etc. We live in a very diverse area and, at college, she was surprised how many of the white/ hispanic/ asian kids didn’t include her and, at first, the black kids considered her “too white.” Every semester, I ask her if she wants to come home. My kids who’ve attended big universities have NOT had problems like this. So I understand the idea that a group of minority kids should go into the school together, to be each other’s support. </p>
<p>Interestingly, when we toured a certain upstate NY lac, I noticed that the AA kids were very segregated. The student tour guide told me that “everyone sticks to their own kind.” I told him that I didn’t realize that people still defined their own kind by the color of skin and he said that, unlike the other kids on campus, the AA kids on campus were all poor, inner city kids who came through Posse. I then explained that Posse wasn’t just for poor kids and he was surprised. (Sigh! Yes, that school went off our list.) </p>
<p>And yes, thank you kayf. Milkandsugar, this student’s SATs are 2250.</p>
<p>NYU’s financial aid is only generous for its HEOP students. However, even for HEOP students, the financial aid package is not as great as HEOP from other schools. NYU’s HEOP leaves you hanging for $6,000 that you’ll have to somehow find on your own (e.g. private loans) but other schools with HEOP will give you more money.</p>
<p>I think the OP got a great package, and I congratulate her. She is clearly from a low income family as she is eligible for PELL, HEOP and TAP. </p>
<p>My understanding of HEOP was also that it was supposed to be for kids for whom it is a leap for the student to attend. I don’t see how a someone with those test scores is going to need a whole lot of support. I don’t remember what her grades were, and I don’t know what her highschool is like, so it could well be that she is one of those rare gems. </p>
<p>But I know what some of the posters are feeling, I think, because I too get a niggling feeling that there is some advantage being taken of this program. Yes, NYU is giving this student a generous grant, but she is commuting, which cuts down on the cost, and she is also getting more than $12K in federal and state monies to supplement the aid that NYU is giving. They are hardly taking any chance on her, given the stats. So all of this makes me feel that this is not anything that the school is giving in terms of support of a program that is trying to give kids who don’t have the opportunity otherwise to go to a college. I think this student was a strong candidate at any school.</p>
<p>I was feeling the same way, but looking further, she is only getting 1700.00 HEOP Stipend, which is suppose to be used for books. The nursing school has a lot more generous FA packages than the rest of the school. But I do find it disturbing that having the high stats, she should not have been eligible for any HEOP consideration.</p>
<p>I don’t know what the maximum HEOP stipend is and I don’t know if the school gets some of the HEOP monies for putting programs in place for students that meet the criteria for that money. It just feels a little discomfiting. It doesn’t feel like NYU is offering someone the assistance a program is set up to give to someone who needs that sort of support. It looks like it is using that money to help buy a student who is an attract admit under any circumstances and is a bargain with all that federal and state subsidy money.</p>
<p>I just read the HEOP eligibility requirements, and it is my opinion that NYU is misusing HEOP funds on this student. It is clear that the program is for students whose academic profile would not ordinarily get them accepted to a school. This is not the case here. I see this is a blatant violation of the rules of the program.</p>
<p>Instead of the stipend, she should have been offered the full Stafford loan, sub and unsub. Only 3000? Clearly, that is what they are notorious for doing. What made it different here? This is why I dislike(hate) the way they do FA. They make me pay my EFC and way more, my daughter taking her full stafford responsibility and then giving it away to others who don’t have to have any skin in the game. It’s nice for the OP, but unfortunate for others.</p>
<p>cpt, That’s the way I see it too. The state guidelines require that the student be economically disadvantaged: </p>
<p>"Who is Eligible?
To be eligible for HEOP you must meet all of the following conditions. You must:
Have been a resident of New York State for one year preceding your term of entry into HEOP.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Possess a high school diploma or a State-approved equivalency diploma (with a composite score not higher than 3100) or its equivalent.
…</p></li>
<li><p>Be educationally disadvantaged. An educationally disadvantaged student is a student who otherwise would not be accepted as a matriculated student under the institution’s normal admissions standards in the degree program for which application is made. At open admissions institutions, an educationally disadvantaged student must meet one of the following criteria:
a) Possess a high school equivalency diploma; or
b) Possess the equivalent of a GED; or
c) Have no high school diploma; or
d) Meet other acceptable academic criteria, which differentiate the HEOP student from regularly admitted students (e.g., lower test scores, lower GED scores)."</p></li>
</ol>
<p>And the state does give schools $ to fund the program:</p>
<p>“HEOP provides colleges with funds to help meet the cost of your education.”</p>
<p>She meets the economically disadvantaged criteria being PELL eligible. It is the educationally disadvantaged definition she clearly does not meet. She has to be a primo candidate for NYU and really any school with those stats.</p>
<p>Sorry, I mis-typed. That should have said educationally disadvantaged. </p>
<p>However, being a Pell Grant recipient is not enough to be economically disadvantaged. There is a chart with income requirements and only 15% of students can exceed those requirements and then only with limited extenuating circumstances. For a dependent student, the income for a 2-person family is $21,000, 3-person: $26420, 4-person $31830, 5-person $37,240. The exceptions, which require outside documentation, are: </p>
<p>a) Serious mismanagement of the family income, with little accruing to the interest of the student; or
b) A one-time fluctuation in household income, where there is a history of low income; or
c) Households with substantial long-term, nonreimbursed medical obligations such as maintenance of physically or mentally handicapped children; or
d) Families which must maintain two households, one for the wage earner and one for the dependents in order to maintain employment; or
e) Families where the family contribution as computed from base year financial data by a United States Department of Education approved needs analysis system indicates no contribution other than the minimum expectation from student income for independent students, or a zero parental contribution for dependent students. </p>
<p>All of this is in that booklet that I linked. Another correction is that milkandsugar wrote that the program is for historically underrepresented students students. It is not. There is no preference based on race or historical underrepresented status. This program is available to all qualified NY kids regardless of race or ethnicity.</p>
<p>[HEOP</a> Getting In](<a href=“http://nyu-op.org/heop/getting_in/index.htm]HEOP”>http://nyu-op.org/heop/getting_in/index.htm)
I may have changed what is stated in the NYU program. “traditionally underserved” is very similar to “historically underrepresented”.
I never mentioned race or ethnicity. Historically underrepresented can be women, minority, educationally underserved, economically disadvantaged.</p>
<p>milkandsugar, You wrote “historically underrepresented and economically disadvantaged students” which implies students have to meet those 2 criteria while NYU wrote “traditionally underserved, low-income” which implies that low-income students students are traditionally under-served. I don’t want to argue with you; I just want to make sure that students who may look at this thread months or years from now understand the criteria. Being economically disadvantaged is not supposed to be enough and being in a category that is historically underrepresented (minority status or female) is not taken into account. I have met people who mistakenly thought that HEOP is for minorities.</p>