<p>2collegewego,
I am not going to argue or mince words with you, but the verbiage in NYU literature does state " minority" as an eligibility factor for HEOP. The language has morphed and changed in different contexts, but it is clearly stated. I have attended a NYU HEOP/CSTEP orientation and the entire room was filled with minorities, including, Asians, hispanic, indian, African Americans. I did not see one white person in the crowd.
<a href=“http://www.nyu.edu/content/dam/nyu/ugAdmissions/documents/heop-nomination-form.pdf[/url]”>http://www.nyu.edu/content/dam/nyu/ugAdmissions/documents/heop-nomination-form.pdf</a></p>
<p>This gets more and more interesting. NYU says that their program is mostly minority students-- which is probably true since it’s probably also mostly NYC kids-- but I have a hard time thinking that every kid who qualified just happens to be a minority kid. 
They are not <em>supposed</em> to take minority status into consideration.</p>
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<p>I think you are reading something that NYU does not say. The school specifically states </p>
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<p>What this means is that the applicants who is most likely to apply to the NYU HEOP program are low income minority students which is why they make up a large part of the applicant pool. This is different from it being a"minority program." I can only talk about my experience at the high schools where I have worked: with the expection of the one minority male I know who was admitted this year, most of the past HEOP recipients I know were either asian or hispanic.</p>
<p>It also does not state that being a minority is a criteria fro being admitted to NYU HEOP although minority students are woefully underrepresented. As a school that has over 21,000 students, 909 or 4.2 % of the undergraduate population is african american while 1608 (7.2%) are hispancis. Asians represent 19.2% of NYU’s undergrad population. </p>
<p>[NYU</a> > Office of Institutional Research and Program Evaluation > About Us](<a href=“http://www.nyu.edu/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/cmd276/fact.book.data/submit_factbook2.pl?view=3&year=20083&cdspage=a&cdspage=b&cdspage=c&cdspage=h]NYU”>http://www.nyu.edu/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/cmd276/fact.book.data/submit_factbook2.pl?view=3&year=20083&cdspage=a&cdspage=b&cdspage=c&cdspage=h)</p>
<p>Perhaps schools and counselors are not telling low income non-minority students about the program or non-minority students are making an assumption that perhaps they are not eligible. At the end of the day, no one is stopping anyone from applying to the program and the school will make the final determination.</p>
<p>I know some caucasian students who were HEOP eligible. They were immigrant children from Eastern Europe, and because of their switch in schooling, cultures and lives, their grades, test scores, English were not up to par, so they would not ordinarily be accepted to the schools that took them. HEOP is supposed to provide help for them once they go to those schools along with the grant. The kids were also economically disadvantaged and like the OP got PELL, TAP, loans, work study, school grants as well as the HEOP grant which was between $1-2K. But my understanding of the true value of HEOP, lies not in the grant, but in that extra help at the college and also these kids are given extra consideration for admissions as they would not be accepted without it. This is where I see the problem with the OP. Her academic profile makes her truly not a fit for an important part of the program. She is a great catch for the NYU nursing program, and I daresay there are very few in that group that have her stats. I’ll bet she is the top student there in terms of being educationally qualified. That is a deliberate and flagrant misuse of the program. It’s not as though NYC is short on kids who are not qualified to be accepted to NYU and could better qualify for the program.</p>
<p>Not to question, the OP but did anyone consider she may have inflated her stats for her own reasons. At first she said her SAT was 1500. I’m in no way judging the OP but we all want to make ourselves look better and in this case if brought on quite a bit of controversy.</p>
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<p>I don’t think any of us are in a position to judge this, nor do I think we should use information the OP shared at our request to otherwise suggest there is anything improper in the package she was offered. For example, it is often the case that merely attending an urban public high school in some areas – given historical recorded performance in programs of rigor – would count as educationally disadvantaged. Eg. a 3.85 from a comprehensive urban does not always equal a 3.85 from one of the NY magnet schools.</p>
<p>OP, I do not in any way mean to take anything away from your accomplishments in my comment above – I’m just suggesting to the other posters possible criteria for the qualification for that grant.
So don’t make anything out of the last number of posts, and accept our
congratulations. </p>
<p>You may officially now jump for joy!</p>
<p>We have to take the info that the posters give us or there is nothing to post. For all we know she did not get into NYU, is not a student, did not get a HEOP award, etc, etc. But given the info presented and given what is written in the HEOP site, she should not have gotten accepted via HEOP. And I say shame on NYU not on her.</p>
<p>Sybbie, I didn’t misread. I based my statement on what milkandsugar wrote. Yes, we can assume that the OP and milkandsugar are not giving the full story (and I’m not sure why I would think that since all evidence seems to support their posts)-- but we also have to take into account that NYU has removed mention of SAT guidelines for HEOP and we also have to take into account what your previous post said, “The kids from my HS that have been admitted HEOP at NYU have been some students who were financially disadvantaged and not necessarily academically disadvantaged.” Again, that is not acceptable under HEOP guidelines. I won’t say it’s a misuse of the program because I don’t have the proof; but it certainly looks like it’s a possibility.</p>
<p>Kmcmom, I’m not sure why you are bringing up grades since no one has posted on grades up to now. On the HEOP guidelines, HEOP has a definition for what is educational disadvantage which is that the student is not admissable under normal admissions guidelines. Normally, test scores are used since, as you wrote, there’s a difference between a 3.85 from an urban school and a 3.85 from a top school. The traditional measure of educational disadvantage under HEOP is test scores. Also, graduating from certain schools wouldn’t be an automatic definition of educational disadvantage since an educationally disadvantaged student is a student who otherwise would not be accepted under normal admissions standards. I’ve never heard of a school which would list graduating from a poor urban school as making a student inadmissable-- and, if a school existed, it would certainly not be NYU where urban kids have sought college degrees for decades.</p>
<p>2college, the entire sitch seems strange to me. Not only does the kid get into NYU, but gets institutional aid. How could that be indicative of a kid who normally would not qualify admission?</p>
<p>My guess would be what is really considered educationally disadvantaged?</p>
<p>For example: Barnard’s HEOP requires that you have a SAT CR score of 620 or lower and a gpa of 85 or higher. </p>
<p>[Information</a> for Prospective Students | Barnard College](<a href=“http://www.barnard.edu/heop/prospective]Information”>http://www.barnard.edu/heop/prospective)</p>
<p>The 620 on the CR reading is higher than the national CR average. It is safe to say that most HEOP students are Barnard will have a higher than average CR score.</p>
<p>The middle 50 CR score of matiriculated students is 640-740.<br>
<a href=“http://barnard.edu/sites/default/files/inline/cds2008_2009.pdf[/url]”>http://barnard.edu/sites/default/files/inline/cds2008_2009.pdf</a></p>
<p>There is no HEOP threshold for math. So theoretically one could have a 610 CR and a 790 math with a 95 average and be considered HEOP eligible at Barnard. Most would not consider the student academically disadvantaged. You can bet $$ that most of the students getting accepted have scores that are dancing on the 620.</p>
<p>According to NYU their middle 50 is 620 to 720 CR and 630 thru 720 math</p>
<p>[NYU</a> > Office of Institutional Research and Program Evaluation > About Us](<a href=“http://www.nyu.edu/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/cmd276/fact.book.data/submit_factbook2.pl?view=3&year=20083&cdspage=a&cdspage=b&cdspage=c]NYU”>http://www.nyu.edu/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/cmd276/fact.book.data/submit_factbook2.pl?view=3&year=20083&cdspage=a&cdspage=b&cdspage=c)</p>
<p>my question is which school are they reporting the middle 50 for when each school has different requirements. The requirements to get into gallatin are probably a little more relaxed than the requirements to get into Stern, which is going to be different from CAS, Tisch ,Steinhardt or Nursing. </p>
<p>Since most nursing programs require a high gpas and sat scores, we really have no way of knowing where Op’s gpa falls in relation to the other nursing school candidates . for all we know her score while they may be high could be lower that the admitted student avg. score. I think that it woudl be safe to say the the admission bar to get into the nursing program is probably higher than some of the admission bars at some of the other NYU schools. I also agree with Kellybear’s statement, that perhaps the student may have felt the need embellish a little because everyone talks about how NYU only gives money to it’s top students and kills the rest of them with loans. However, many people do not know that HEOP is one of the few porgrams at NYU that meets 100% demonstrated. She may be presenting herself as a student who got all of this $$ because she was smart (which no doubt she is) similar to a person who tells people that they got a free ride to Harvard (where people in the know will know that your free ride came as a result of your having a great financial need).</p>
<p>Sybbie, OP has a substantial amount of institutional aid. NYU is stingy with need based aid, but does give out money to above average kids. Maybe most nursing schools have high admit standards, but I think when one is comparing to NYU, especially Stern, this may not be so true. The sitch doesnt hold water, imho.</p>
<p>2collegewego, excuse me, but why are you lumping me with the OP.
. What the heck are you talking about? Now you are talking gibberish.</p>
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<p>NYU is also extremely generous with institutional need based aid with HEOP students (which is the exception to their “stingy” financial aid practices). This is probably the only set of students that get large amounts of need based institutional funds from NYU because NYU is admitting them knowing that they will need a large amount of need institutional financial aid in order to attend.</p>
<p>milkandsugar, Huh? You said that NYU Heop oritentation was “filled with minorities” and you didn’t see one white person there. Sybbie was arguing against this being true and I was saying that even if I discount what the OP said and what you said (which I believe but, for the sake of argument, will go along with Sybbie and pretend you just didn’t see the white people but there were some), there is evidence that NYU’s practices are questionable. </p>
<p>Sybbie, Barnard’s requirements make perfect sense. A student who is under 25% of CR score at Barnard, a liberal arts school known for its writing program, is a student who is unlikely to be admitted. There is no way the OP’s scores put her at risk of being inadmissable to NYU. </p>
<p>This is what the OP said were her stats:
Math =800
Reading =700
Writing = 750
GPA = 3.85</p>
<p>This is what I found out specifically about NYU’s College of Nursing:
Freshman
Admission: 37,464 applied; 14,275 admitted; 5,012 enrolled Average high school GPA: 3.6</p>
<p>Test Scores
SAT critical reading scores over 500 99%
SAT math scores over 500 100%
SAT writing scores over 500 99%
ACT scores over 18 100%
SAT critical reading scores over 600 83%
SAT math scores over 600 88%
SAT writing scores over 600 87%
ACT scores over 24 98%
SAT critical reading scores over 700 32%
SAT math scores over 700 42%
SAT writing scores over 700 37%
ACT scores over 30 48% </p>
<p>So that means all 3 subscores and her GPA are in the top 50% of accepted students.</p>
<p>^2collegewego, I was bringing up the idea that all 3.85s are not equal to HEOP due to the following passage from HEOP guidelines, which leaves an abundance of discretion for the institution:</p>
<p>The Higher Education Opportunity Program is designed to serve the student who is both academically and economically disadvantaged. A disadvantaged student is an individual from a low-income family with potential for a successful collegiate experience but who has not acquired the verbal, mathematical, and other cognitive skills required to complete his/her college work. Generally, his/her grades fall in the bottom half of the high school graduating class, he/she has not earned a Regents diploma,
, has been tracked or scheduled into a general, commercial or vocational high school program, or has been out of school for a number of years.</p>
<p>source please for sat scores @ NYU school of nursing</p>
<p>Are you saying that it is “easier” to be admitted in to the Nursing program at NYU than it is to be admitted to the other programs at NYU? I think that the avg SAT scores for the school of Nursing are most likely higher than the scores that NYU has reported on their common data set.</p>
<p>Sybbi – source please for your statement that “NYU is also extremely generous with institutional need based aid with HEOP students (which is the exception to their “stingy” financial aid practice”</p>
<p>I also have to wonder even if true, what is driving that relationship? If OPs SATS and GPE are above average, does the school just willy nilly arrange for HEOP aid? </p>
<p>I dont beleive that the nursing students stats are above Stern. An ever increasing number of liberal arts students are admitted into the alternative program, and I dont think their stats are included in the general admit numbers.</p>
<p>sybbie, It’s from Peterson’s. Here’s the link: </p>
<p>[New</a> York University (College of Nursing) Admissions - New York, New York - Undergraduate Search at Petersons.com](<a href=“http://www.petersons.com/college-search/new-york-university-college-of-nursing-admissions-000_10059320_10002.aspx]New”>http://www.petersons.com/college-search/new-york-university-college-of-nursing-admissions-000_10059320_10002.aspx)</p>
<p>Because of your question, I looked up what Peterson reports for NYU in general and they use the exact same stats so, even though they listed it as College of Nursing, it’s not specific data. Still, that puts this student at the top 50% of all NYU admitted students. </p>
<p>Kmcmom, I see that as meaning that a student has not acquired the verbal, mathematical, and other cognitive skills required to complete his/her college work and then they list various reasons why the student may not have those skills. Based on both grades and scores, this student <em>has</em> acquired the verbal, mathematical and other cognitive skills.</p>
<p>The Peterson information which is not consistent with information from the office of institutional research at NYU or the College Board.</p>
<p>It simply says that 99% of students admitted had CR scores above 500. What does this mean was every student with a 510 admitted? As I stated previously NYU does not break its information down by school which sometimes is doing a disservice to students who are applying as each school has its own admission criteria.</p>
<p>Kay if you really want to know, I do have in my files about 6 years of NYU HEOP award letters in addition to Award letters from Non-EOP NYU admitted students because we my school sends students to NYU each year (have you forgotten, this is what I do). It has been my experience that every HEOP/EOP award letter that I have seen for any student accepted in any EOP/HEOP program gave a financial aid package that met 100% demonstrated need. It is not to say that there were no loans in the package (exception being Columbia and Cornell) but there were also no gaps in the financial aid package. </p>
<p>as part of their FAQ’s, NYU answers the question what is a typical HEOP student? THier response</p>
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<p>We only know a snippet about the OP, so apparently she brought something to the table that NYU was looking for. NYU also has no hard and fast rules when it comes down to who they give their $$ to. I wholeheartedly believe that NYU like many other colleges can and does give preferential packaging to students that they want to attend.</p>
<p>“It simply says that 99% of students admitted had CR scores above 500. What does this mean was every student with a 510 admitted” No, obviously not. It means that 99% of admitted students that year had over 500 CR SAT – and the numbers place the OP in the top 50%. </p>
<p>If you want to use NYU’s own figures, here they are from the most recent Common Data Set. They still put her in the top 32% in CR, top 37% in Math, top 37% in Writing, top 36% of gpa. </p>
<p>Percent of first-time, first-year (freshman) students with SAT scores in each range: </p>
<p>SAT Score: CR Math Writing </p>
<p>700-800 32.4% 37.2% 37.1%
600-699 52.6% 48.0% 48.3%
500-599 14.4% 14.1% 13.7%
400-499 0.6% 0.7% 0.9% </p>
<p>Average high school GPA of all degree-seeking, first-time, first-year (freshman) students who submitted GPA: 3.6</p>
<p>Percentage of all enrolled, degree-seeking, first-time, first-year (freshman) students who had high school grade-point averages within each of the following ranges (using 4.0 scale). Report information only for those students from whom you collected high school GPA. </p>
<p>Percent who had GPA of 3.75 and higher 36.1%
Percent who had GPA between 3.5 and 3.74 36.5%
Percent who had GPA between 3.25 and 3.49 15.6%
Percent who had GPA between 3.00 and 3.24 10.2%
Percent who had GPA between 2.50 and 2.99 1.6%
Percent who had GPA between 2.0 and 2.49<br>
Percent who had GPA between 1.0 and 1.99<br>
Percent who had GPA below 1.0 </p>
<p>I do believe that NYU meets full need for HEOP students and practices preferential packaging. However, that doesn’t mean that NY state allows them to use HEOP funds for populations outside NY state’s definition. That would be an interesting question to pose to NY state. There would be no problem if NYU gave its HEOP funds to students who met the state criteria of educational disadvantage AND, on top of that, met a guideline like posted (first in family to attend college, is pursuing an area in which they are underrepresented). Certainly, NYU probably has more students who apply who <em>are</em> both economically and educationally qualified than they can reasonably give HEOP funds, and they have to make a decision among eligible candidates… but I have not seen a school use the state $ for students who are not educationally disadvantaged as defined by the state yet substitute their own guidelines for the state guidelines.</p>