<p>Sybbie, we all agree that OP brought something to NYU that NYU was looking for. What many are questioning is whether the purpose of the HEOP funds is being met. </p>
<p>And no, I dont remember what you or anyone does for living.</p>
<p>I think what we are all trying to figure out is are private universities using HEOP funds to substitute for their institutional aid, for students who are by all measure deserving (but maybe not by HEOP standards).</p>
<p>HEOP funds at max is 2000. All the rest of the financial aid given to HEOP/EOP students comes directly from the institution. IF push came to shove, I am sure that NYU would have no problem reimbursing the state $1700.</p>
<p>HEOP and STEP has been in existence for over 20 years? DO you really think that HEOP admissions staff does not know what they are doing? Perhaps NYU an exemption because they are not getting enough low income (minority/bilingual/ name your instutional mission) students in HEOP for Nursing and has been granted a waiver for a particular program because the state believes that the ends justifies the means. THe admissions requirements for EOP are not set in stone and schools do have a little flexibility in the admissions process. For all we know OP could be the only EOP student in the Nursing program. Perhaps the schools need to gender balance (which is a big deal in the SUNY EOP programs right now). </p>
<p>CUNY has changed its admissons policy this past season with more changes coming over the next few years during this past cycle. Students who would have been admitted into the Senior colleges last year were denied this year. EOP/HEOP other schools have followed suit in their admissions practices. A couple of SUNYs thisyear required that students passed regents in the entire math sequence in order to be admitted through EOP. Student were not accepted in to EOP/HEOP programs that would have been accepted 2 years ago. Since the State is requiring more (the regents passing score in English and Math is moving from a 65 to 75 with the passing score being 80/85 in the next few years) and NYS public high schools being evaluated on college readiness the whole college admissions especially in NYS/NYS is going to change in a few years. </p>
<p>NYU also gives up to 20k a year in scholarhsips for community college transfers. Not all NYU schools participate in the program nor does NYU partner with every community college in the state. Does that mean that NYU is isusing or abusing the process? No.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, NYU will have to undergo a state audit regarding their opportunity programs. The worse that can or would happen is that they would repay the state the $1700 and/or opt out of HEOP just like a number of state schools have over the past few years. Apparently NYU is not at a loss of students/families willing to spend big /borrow big bucks to attend. So should NYU decide to opt out, it will be the low income students that will suffer the most because they will be the ones losing this amazing opportunity.</p>
<p>must be doing something right because the program 20 years later is still going strong</p>
<p>I don’t know enough about any of this to file a complaint, but this does leave a bad taste in my mouth. It just seems to me that the applicant is a cream of the crop student that would have been considered at any college without the help of HEOP. She does not appear to be the least bit educationally disadvantaged. On the surface, reading the purpose of HEOP and what students it targets --which are those students that would not ordinarily be considered for admissions under regular standards, and this is pretty much what the site says, the OP does not meet the criterion. She doesn’t have a 700 SAT; she’s at the very top, close to 800. </p>
<p>Yes, NYU could have gotten a waiver, or is requesting one for lack of HEOP eligible kids. It’s hard for me to believe that there are not a lot of nursing candidates in NYC or suburbs who are economically disadvantaged, where simply qualifying for financial aid can be a criterion, and do NOT have high test scores. Every year this forum is filled with NYU kids who have financial need who have been gapped big time. Some of them are PELL eligible, and though accepted to NYU without the help of HEOP, have far lower test scores than the OP. If there are not enough HEOP eligible kids applying to NYU or other schools through this program, the school counselors, the program and the colleges are not doing enough to get such kids. There is no shortage of families who qualify for financial aid in the NY area with kids that do not have such top scores.</p>
<p>I don’t go for the argument that the worst that can or would happen is that NYU would repay the state the $1700. The opting out or getting kicked out of HEOP would be the worst. But if NYU is giving kids HEOP funds that do not fit the missions statement to supplement their own financial aid, shame on them. That money is to give schools inventive to take a chance on kids that they would not ordinarily take. To use it to on kids they would easily take anyways doesn’t sit right with me. Tax payer funds is what it is. </p>
<p>The reason a number of state schools have opted out of HEOP is because they were staying true to the mission and taking chances on the admissions which resulted in admitting kids who were high risk in terms of doing the work. They were flunking out despite the HEOP supplementation which is supposed to be the crux of the program. They were not likely using the funds for their top candidates, and Sybbie, no matter how you look at this, if the OP is telling the truth, she is a top candidate for even HPY with those stats. </p>
<p>That $1700 is a drop in the bucket towards the NYU education. But I resent that my tax dollars are going to a private school who seems to me to be going for that money without doing what the purpose of the funds. We have PELL, TAP for low income kids on the federal and state level. The HEOP is to give an admissions boost to those kids. </p>
<p>I’ve seen kids get the absolutely most terrific and generous packages from NYU. Those are the kids who have the top stats. NYU can’t do enough to pay for those kids. I know a few who live down the street from me. They got merit within need which made their packages over need, they so wanted those kids. So if NYU opts out of the program, it won’t be kids like the OP who would be losing the opportunity. That $1700 isn’t a big deal with those stats from what I have seen with some NYU packages for kids like that. </p>
<p>I see this sort of thing, at times with the Perkins loans at some schools, being offered to kids who are not PELL eligible. I hope the reason is that the school is fully funding the PELL kids but some of those schools have notoriously few PELL eligible kids, so that the funds are for financial aid… period. That skirts on being dishonest in my opinion. You can’t come up with enough PELL kids to give these loans? </p>
<p>I feel this way, not because I am all “holier than thou” about these things, but because there are a heart wrenching number of kids who truly need the money to go to school. In an area like NYC, and I am a New Yorker, live near enough to the city to see this, I am absolutely sure that there were nursing students that would fit HEOP critierion and that NYU does not have to search far and wide to find kids NOT meeting the mid 75% or even 50% line on test scores and grades for acceptance. In this case, it appears to me to be a blatant mis use of funds. NYU is taking no chances with this admit.</p>
<p>As for doing something right because it is still going strong for 20 years, it is giving money to schools for those kids that are economically disadvantaged. So of course schools will take it, if it isn’t more trouble than it is worth. If you take the cream of the crop that are just economically disadvantaged and give the money to those kids, you aren’t doing a danged thing. You are getting free money. You really thing the OP is in need of HEOP services? S/he is clearly at the top of the class academically, with those stat. NYU just saved $1700 on a kid they would have likely admitted and paid for anyways. $1700 from my tax money that also paid for PELL and TAP and the loans subsidization. If HEOP is just an extension of those programs, then merge it with them. </p>
<p>I applaud HEOP and EOP for what their missions are, which is to get kids into schools that don’t meet the academic qualification for admissions, and provide support services for them when they get there. IF that is what they are doing, I am whole heartedly for it. But it looks to me like it is not working if the SUNYs and CUNYs are not getting enough kids to qualify, and all it is doing is getting kids already qualified for these schools more money. If that’s the case, have the funds go over to TAP, or cut out the scholarship and just use the funds to shore up the support services. I know for a fact that many SUNY/CUNY kids do not pass the Regents; some don;t even take them, so to make passing them a criterion is making their admissions tougher, not easier for admissions which is not the purpose of the program. It seems to me that it has gone the way of too many other programs, taking the easy way out to get the money without doing what the entire mission of the program. I’d just as soon flush the program if it is simply giving funds to schools for needy kids. Merge it with TAP and there would be more funds available.</p>
<p>I actually agree with cptofthehouse. They didnt even require/offer OP the full Stafford, sub and unsub.</p>
<p>That is the $64,000 question; is OP telling the truth about her stats? Her first post was to discuss her FA package because she was accepted to HEOP. THen someone asked what was her stats (maybe Op saw her self in a no win situation. IF she said that she had a total of 1500 - which would have been a reasonable HEOP for NYU, there would have been a lot of railing over how culd she get so much $$ with stats that would be considered low). </p>
<p>As I stated previously since the concenus seems to be that only high stat kids get money, maybe she simply posted some high stats to justify the money she got almost the same as a student saying they got a full ride scholly to Harvard (when we know that Harvard only gives need based).</p>
<p>Granted I have not seen HEOP admittes with 700/800 on their SATs but I have seen students admitted who are dancing on the median (or just a little sliver below) and schools that look at minimum SAT scores to be eligible for EOP/HEOP.</p>
<p>Perhaps the SAT is 1500 for all 3 parts. Perhaps, the OP is not telling the truth. In terms of the OP not telling the truth, we can’t second guess that on any post. Unless something is so trollish that it is near obscene, I treat the inquiry as valid and true. I mean, really, maybe s/he didn’t even get into NYU, maybe the it’s not the school of nursing, maybe s/he didn’t get HEOP at all. If you add up the maybes, you’ve got nothing. I don’t hold the OP responsible for the package. I congratulate her, S/he got a great package from NYU, a fine, highly desired school. I think all of us agree with that. But the discussion has now veered towards HEOPs and EOPS, and whether a given student should get one if s/he doesn’t meet the stated criteria.</p>
<p>What I am saying is that if a student is truly an easy admit to a school, s/he does not meet the criteria for HEOP. Those funds are supposed to be used for kids that would not be likely admits for a school. Otherwise the programs should be dismantled and the funds merged with TAP so that more low income kids get money.</p>
<p>i just don’t believe this poster has an 800 math SAT score and can’t figure out that a package totaling $46,550. is good package. Also what kid who scores 800 on a math SAT says they got 1500 on their SAT. Maybe 25 years ago. Kids know it’s out of 2400. Something doesn’t add up.</p>
<p>She is being awarded $7250 in self help funds. I did not calculate what her bottom line cost is going be to go to NYU as it will be heavily depended on her commuting expenses, but she is already way over what a CUNY would cost her. She could have a free ride at a state school as PELL and TAP pretty much cover state costs, so it is a valid question. I often state that it isn’t what you get that counts, it’s what you have to pay, and loans/workstudy mean you still have to pay; it just defers the when and how. </p>
<p>There are still folks who still report the SAT in two parts, including kids. If the OP has 800 on math, it is nearly impossible to just get 700 on the other two parts. I agree something is not right here.</p>
<p>Cpt, there could be reasons why OP is asking if this is a good package. Maybe she wanted aid to cover housing at school. Maybe she wanted no loand. At to reporting just two parts of the SATs, she may be attending a city HS where most grads go to CUNYs/SUNYs which I think only look at the two parts, and that is how her peers discuss SATs.</p>
<p>I agree. There are a number of reasons. I think the discussion has veered towards the appropriate use of the HEOP and EOPs. Sybbie provided some interesting information.</p>
<p>I am all for that program as its goals are to specifically get kids who are disadvantaged into schools that have to take a chance on them and provide support for them once they are there. But from what Sybbie is saying, schools may be putting constraints on the programs so that they are no longer fufilling the terms. I agree fully with her that those working the program for all of these years, certainly know how it works, and unfortunately, what they can get away with in terms of not meeting program purposes. As NY taxpayer, I object if that is indeed happening. </p>
<p>If schools are just using it to get extra money for financial aid and are indeed NOT taking kids they would otherwise not be taking, and if the stats are showing that, why have this separate program with its administrative costs at all? Just dismantle it and put the money towards TAP or to the SUNY/CUNY systems or reduce taxes accordingly. This happens to many programs. They morph into things that no longer fulfill their original purpose, and when that happens, the practice needs to be reviewed and the program reined in or dismantled.</p>
<p>Maybe they weren’t her only SAT scores. </p>
<p>True story: a few years ago, a kid worked part time in my office suite. She was a URM and attended NYU. She got HEOP money. She too was a commuter. </p>
<p>The first time she took the SAT she got a 1350. She was told she didn’t qualify for HEOP. So, she took the SATs again, intentionally leaving lots of questions blank, and scored a 1000. (Both scores are out of 1600.) She reported the second set of scores to HEOP. She got the money. </p>
<p>Now, part of me views what she did as cheating, but, given her family’s financial situation, I really don’t blame her. She thought it was ridiculous that she was being penalized for having good SATs. Kids at her high school thought her scores were extraordinarily high–I know that because several of her classmates also part time in our suite. </p>
<p>So, for all we know, if the situation was “gamed” here, it may be the student who did the “gaming,” not NYU.</p>
<p>Personally, I find the idea that one would determine whether someone is disadvantaged educationally by SAT scores is absurd. Yes, I am aware that the scores in the aggregate correlate with income. But there are kids who read a lot on their own or who have some mentor who has encouraged them to read or tutored them for the SAT who score quite well. Some of these kids go to high schools which don’t prepare them well academically. It might be hard to succeed in nursing if you have a poor background in science. Is it really awful to give that kid some help?</p>
<p>What if NYU nursing normally only accepts students with 3 years of lab science and this student only had two years because that’s all her high school offered? (Obviously, I don’t know if that’s the case. I’m just making up a hypothetical.) </p>
<p>Or lets say that at some private college taking calculus in high school was a prerequisite for admission to the engineering program. Isn’t a kid whose high school doesn’t offer calculus educationally disadvantaged in that situation? Would using HEOP funds to provide help to those students in calculus really be a distortion?</p>