<p>@2011ivy - No. I find that it’s impossible to be categorized into the “cool” or “loser” domain when you’re at Barnard, because it’s not high school. Everyone is too busy doing their own thing, pursuing their own interests, and not caring a whit whether someone is “cool” or not. My perception is that a lot of girls who were misfits in high school managed to find friends with similar interests in college at last, while “popular girls” find themselves lost in college when they no longer have a clique or a close-knit group of girls to fall back on. This has been the result of a number of girls I’ve known in high school, not just those I’ve met at Barnard. The fact is, you’ll find different personality types here. Some party relentlessly on the weekends, some prefer to see musicals or take day adventures of the cultural variety in NYC, some (particularly the science majors) who are on the verge of keeling over from exhaustion, and prefer to rest on the weekends. I’m afraid you’re going to have to go in with a more independent attitude and reconstitute your ideas of “cool” or “not cool” if you want to go to a city school, or college in general. People could literally care less.</p>
<p>As i stated before I think the timing of the weekend may have something to do with it being a little boring. D2 was student body president in HS and one of the volleyball captains. She acted in school plays and ran the talent show. At Barnard she is a film studies major with a physics minor. She has managed one play and produced another. She did the semester abroad. But right this week she would probably qualify as boring:
competing her thesis
studying for Anthro
Studying for Quantum Phys.
finishing her script class
finishing another film class
finishing photography class
and another photography class she is taking downtown
about 20 hours of credit.
Not everyone pushes themselves that way. There are sororities and athletic teams. There is New York. There are, she tells me, some party animals. She and her friends cook for each other and she has seen two Broadway shows in the past two weeks.</p>
<p>My daughter went to Barnard today. She didn’t meet her friend there but took her own tour and said it was good. She likes it…but she thinks she wants to go to USC. I said are you sure? She said I guess. I guess what?? I think she needs a few more days to think about it. She is having so much fun in NYC that she can’t think straight. lol</p>
<p>Our older daughter left her mother at Barnard for the ASW while she went with a group of acceptees and a current student as a guide to explore NYC. Your daughter may want to consider NYC as part of the campus. I lived for a year near USC. Barnard is more convenient ( no need for an auto) and safer. But mainly it is more than sixty miles from home.</p>
<p>There are a certain type of students who are dead set on coming to NY for college. They can barely see beyond the city – they typically apply to NYU and to Columbia and/or Barnard. My daughter was one of those students.</p>
<p>For those students – “fit” is a a matter of urban geography. My d. waffled between Barnard & NYU as her top choice, leaning toward NYU because she preferred its downtown location. NYU was not affordable, but they can be credited with bringing my d. to the city during her spring break week, so she had the chance to breeze through Barnard and make her final decision. Also, NYU gave my d. a nice tote bag. </p>
<p>When my d. went to visit Barnard after being accepted, I think that “OK” is all she was looking for. The school met her #1 criteria – being in Manhattan – she knew that it met her academic standards - so that was it.</p>
<p>I mention that because I think there are a significant number of students on both sides of the street who are there largely because the campuses are in New York. But for the NY location, many of those students would choose equivalent colleges in other areas. (For example, they might choose Yale over Columbia, or choose Smith or Vassar over Barnard, assuming they got in)</p>
<p>Of course there are many students who choose Columbia & Barnard on their own merits as institutions of higher learning, some who choose based on perceived prestige, some whose choice is heavily influenced by financial aid – and some who choose the campuses in spite of the NY location - but I think its a harder adjustment for those who aren’t at least somewhat in love with the idea of living in the city. NYC is just a very intense place, and there’s no getting away from it. </p>
<p>I do think that other, physically larger college campuses often provide their students with a sense of being a world unto its own – a spacious place either separate and apart from the surrounding community – or in the case of many smaller towns, one that dominate the local community. If that is the “traditional” atmosphere that a student wants, it is probably very difficult to get that any Manhattan-based college.</p>
<p>I guess NYU is to thank for my D ending up at Barnard as well. She first heard about Barnard and visited there while at NYU for a 3 week summer dance intensive during the summer before her Senior year of HS. Her original thought was to go to NYU and major in dance, but she was put off by the fact that it was very difficult (if not impossible) to also take “academic” classes and possibly double major at NYU. The other school that she did find that offered great academics with great dance was University of Michigan, but it ended up being way more expensive (for us) for her to go there than to go to Barnard. Plus, she really DID want to be in NYC.</p>
<p>She really wanted to be in NYC. She was a Columbia ED deferral then reject. She is loving NYC right now and even liked Barnard yesterday but is picking USC today. Thank you moms for the support and all the great information! I am pushing the decline button now so that someone else can get in!</p>
<p>Stalkermama – I think that is a sign of maturity on your daughter’s part - she is realizing that “being in New York” and “going to college” are two separate things – New York City will still be around as a place where she can visit and perhaps live and work long after she is done with college. It sounds like USC is a better fit for what she wants out of college – so it sounds like a good choice for her. </p>
<p>It also sounds like she is one of many students who perhaps preferred Columbia and looked at Barnard as an alternative route into Columbia – but I think that is a huge mistake because of the significant differences in academic approach. My d. never considered Columbia --she definitely would not have wanted the core. Her other top choices were mostly schools with very flexible or open curriculums-- she even chafed somewhat under Barnard’s very flexible 9 ways of knowing. </p>
<p>So I suppose Barnard might be a good choice for someone who is thinking, “I love Columbia but I hate the core. I wish I could have Columbia’s resources but more flexibility in choosing my course work” … but not so good for someone who is thinking “I love Columbia. It sure hurts that they rejected me. I really wish I could be there.”</p>
<p>In any case, it sounds like your d. has made the right decision for her. If she feels an emotional pull toward USC that isn’t there for Barnard, then USC is the right place.</p>
<p>Back from worldwind admitted student visits - </p>
<p>Stalkermama - Looks like I’ll be seeing you in LA. We’ll do lunch. However, can’t wear Barnard shirt under USC gear because Barnard gear was so dull that I couldn’t find anything to purchase. (Well, there was the Barnard lace thong but I think that was meant for younger Barnard fans. Not that I couldn’t pull it off…it was stretchy lace LOL). But I still say Barnard provides the best of so many worlds it will be a missed opportunity. </p>
<p>@Slipper - As to the matter of prestige, since a Barnard student can take almost all classes at CC (except core) is CC as prestigious as USC? That said, I do want to thank you for recognizing my ultimate goal - the expansion of my D’s horizons. East coast people and life are very different than the laid back west coast. My NYC husband is evidence of that fact! As for balance, Michigan is an option for her (one that I feel like pursuing more now that USC is in the picture), but paying that much money as an OOS seems silly given UofM’s large class sizes. At least USC gives you rah, rah and fewer than 20 people for most classes.</p>
<p>@Calmom - While a house trade with Stalker does solve many of my issues, I think I have a better idea. My family can move to NYC and give my daughter LA…</p>
<p>Continued -</p>
<p>@Churchmom - “It also was perfect for my daughter who was absolutely NOT looking for a “female-only” environment. I do believe Barnard to be atypical among women’s colleges in that there are, in fact, boys on campus.” </p>
<p>This is why Barnard is so fabulous. It is a women’s college that is coed. We visited Wellesley last week as part of our process. The campus is stunning and the school seems extremely nuturing while cranking out bad*** women. However, while it is 12 miles from Boston, it seemed a world away. As a women of a certain age, I don’t think even I could defer my shallowness for the obvious benefits I would reap from Wellesley.</p>
<p>@Mythmom - ““Her life but my nickel?” Hm. I would never feel that way. I sent both of mine to private colleges and I let each decide. If I would be spending the same amount of money either way, I saw my role only as advisor.”</p>
<p>Admittedly, I see my role as more than an advisor. Perhaps, more of a benefactor. Can we really say that since the cost is the same, there really is no difference from the point of parental involvement? I would venture to state that many parents would have a problem with their child rejecting Yale and Penn to attend Boise State even if the price is the same. While the price, for purposes of my hypothetical, is the same, the educational experience certainly is not.</p>
<p>Mythmom, I hope to mellow out and become you when I grow up…</p>
<p>
LOL! That sounds like a plan.</p>
<p>I do think that one of the tough issue for parents in the college admissions process is that final act of separating the parents’ hopes and dreams from the student’s. You have a picture in your mind, harbored and nurtured from the days when your d. was still in the cradle, of the life you want for her – and of course all is perfect in that picture, with your dream school followed by your dream job and your dream husband and your dream future. </p>
<p>Then the kid is presented with the first real choice in their life, and you see them gravitating off to something that isn’t in the picture. You feel disappointment, loss, maybe even a sense of panic. You have lost control of the situation, because your kid is now making the “wrong” choice - not because it is "wrong’ for them, but because it is so clearly wrong for you. You would never have chosen USC over Barnard – you would never pass up an opportunity to study on the east coast to stay in L.A. – so the choice simply doesn’t make any sense to you at a gut level. It feels wrong because you are a different person than your daughter. </p>
<p>And of course this bodes ill for the future: what other choices is your daughter going to make that are entirely different from what you would imagine or choose. (Hint: wait until she gets to that part about choosing a husband). </p>
<p>Anyway, it’s tough – but I think a necessary part of the growing process. I think it’s an irony that for your daughter, breaking away from the parental dream means choosing a spot within shouting distance of the parental home – but you can take that as a compliment. Despite the “mommie dearest” label you have given yourself, your daughter trusts, loves and respects you enough that “getting far away from the parents” is not an important criteria for college choice. So that says a lot for your relationship.</p>
<p>" This is largely a function of the workload and admission policies of the schools. In order to get into Columbia these days, a student has to have amazing stats – and those admission policies tend to weed out the “fun” kids from high school. "</p>
<p>I think you really hit the nail on the head. But being a serious student doesn’t mean that you can’t enjoy the social aspects of school as well as the academics. I absolutely loved law school because it was academically interesting and the center of my social world. And I attended a top 5 law school (at least it was 25 years ago) so people were definitely smart. I would not describe the students at Wellesley as nerds or boring at all. I am sure many of the students at Barnard/CC are just as cool and outgoing. Are they as fun as students from USC or U of Miami, probably not, and there are a lot of distractions in LA and Miami. But I doubt they are all boring geeks. If they are, Barnard/CC should seriously work on its diversity…admit a few more cheerleaders and athletes!</p>
<p>
rathole comment … Columbia has about 30 varsity teams (on which Barnard students can participate) … this is among the most in D1 … so there certainly are a lot of athletes (twice as many as the typical SEC school for example) … however there isn’t a lot of focus or energy on campus about the teams.</p>
<p>Perhaps this marks me as really out there, but I also think there is often a mystical element to our choses. We chose one school because the mate of our dreams is there, and we don’t even know this. Or the teacher who will become a lifelong mentor.</p>
<p>Schools are made up of individuals, something we can’t know rationally in advance, but perhaps somehow we can sense the call of our own destinies.</p>
<p>I was on the Ivy track but had to leave home right after my junior year in high school because of parental abuse. I needed to go to college right away, and one I could pay for, so I ended up at SUNY Stony Brook, which in those days was filled with mud and not much else.</p>
<p>I met a beloved first husband and found a dream mentor. I got involved with all the student activism of the period which was strongest at two places, Berkeley and Stony Brook. I got admitted into an Ivy grad program anyway, but logistics made me stay at Stony Brook.</p>
<p>I admit I have felt sorry for myself on occasion, but my dissertation won best in US in 1987. Maybe it was the nurturance of my dear friend and mentor who behind me all the way in grad school, too.</p>
<p>My best friend in high school transferred from SUNY Binghamton to Barnard. She said she learned more at Binghamton. I know this wouldn’t be true for most.</p>
<p>My point is that the trappings of things isn’t always indicative of the reality for a particular individual.</p>
<p>Mommie: Thanks for the lovely compliment. I see your point about Boise State at the same money (hard to imagine), but I think USC is enough of a school to offer your D opportunities if she takes them. I think Calmom puts the case very well.</p>
<p>My D chose CUNY law school over the fancier, more prestigious options because the tuition is only $11K for state residents. She was feeling a bit sorry for herself until she landed a wonderful internship with a criminal court judge who is a CUNY graduate who probably chose her for that reason.</p>
<p>There are mysterious forces at work. Okay. Now that sounds really cheesy.</p>
<p>Mommie Dearest, I felt the same way about law school (same experience as well – attended a top 5 law school in the late 70’s) – but I also had to spend a LOT of time studying and reading. One reason that law school was also a center of my social world was the shared interest I had with fellow students – when there were parties at the school or other social gatherings, everyone pretty much talked about law!</p>
<p>I don’t think that Barnard or Columbia students are boring - my d. is a very highly social and sociable person – a week doesn’t go by where she isn’t planning something or other on the social front, and now that she’s embarked on her career she has the sense that I didn’t have to actually take a vacation. But my d’s idea of “socializing” just doesn’t involve frat parties or making a big deal out of college sports events. The type of stuff she likes to do is a good fit for NY – go to clubs & listen to music, attend musical concerts, theater and dance, walk, shop, go to museum exhibits, etc. </p>
<p>My d. is a fun loving person with a great sense of humor - but Barnard really did require a serious commitment of time. It is not “boring” to spend hours working on a thesis topic you find fascinating – my daughter enjoyed working on her thesis so much that she is seriously considering going for a Ph.D. in her field – but it is probably pretty boring to hang around someone while they are working on doing the reading and writing for their thesis. </p>
<p>In law school I learned two great skills. (a) To multitask. (b) to compartmentalize. It’s hard to “multitask” work and socializing, but I did learn how to read a casebook while cooking – and the compartmentalizing part mean the ability to go out for dinner or a show for 2-4 hours, stay reasonably sober, and come back home and get to work. </p>
<p>I do agree with 3togo that there are a LOT of athletes at Barnard & Columbia. One comment my d. made to me early on about her experiences there was, “I didn’t know there would be so many jocks.” But it also seems to be something that goes on in the background – you can read about the teams in the Spectator, but that’s about it.</p>