Help! Retake SAT I or SAT II as a Canadian student?

Test Preparation SAT Preparation
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<p>Hi, I would greatly appreciate any advice on my concerns...as a Canadian student, I feel like I am very unaware of where I stand as an applicant, and my chances of success in being admitted into the top tier American Universities.
Currently I am a senior and I have one more chance to take the SATs. Should I retake the SAT I or the SAT II? (I am interested in Stanford, Princeton, Yale, Harvard, Columbia, UC Berkeley. What should I retake, considering the superscore system and these schools' weighting of the SAT I or II?)
My scores:
SAT I: 2110, (CR 640, M 800, W 670). second try: 2080 (CR 670, M 730, W 680) this second time my score is lower but my percentiles are all higher with the exception of math where I lost 70 points for only 2 mistakes!
SAT II: Bio/Lit/Math II I was unable to study for these very much, so I do not predict good scores</p>

<p>Please keep in mind that us public school Canadians have to do SAT prep all on our own time on top of extracurriculars, maintaining good marks, taking AP courses (not taken by many). Do you know if that will be a consideration when the schools look at our SAT marks? Basically there are 3 people in my grade who are trying to get into the top American schools, and our one guidance counselor who is in charge of American University applications doesn't know anything nor does he care to.
Thank you for answering my question!</p>

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<p>2110 is absolutely not a high enough score for those kinds of colleges unless you have an extremely compelling story or your grades and extracurriculars are absolutely positively stellar. Which, no offense, chances are you don’t have. Generally people accepted to top tier universities have 2250+; 2200 is already cutting it close.</p>

<p>Colleges don’t really pay attention to SAT percentiles, at least as far as I know; those are really just for your personal reference. It’s only the scores they look at.</p>

<p>Also, I think standards are higher for international students, unfortunately :/</p>

<p>If you absolutely LOVE some of the colleges you listed, give them a try; you never know if you may get lucky. But don’t expect too much.</p>

<p>How are your grades at school? I don’t mean to be so American-centric but if possible, could you convert your school grade into a GPA (unweighted or weighted or both is fine) number so it’s easier to compare?</p>

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<p>You will get no “consideration” for being a Canadian applicant at top US schools.</p>

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<p>That’s the thing! None of us even know how to convert to GPA, because apparently they convert it themselves, and it’s different for each school because some schools are definitely harder to get good grades in than others. I posted my marks in another thread:
AP:
English Lit: 4 World History (Self study): 4, Micro/Macro Econ: 3 (we had a bad teacher, some top students in the class who got 95%+ got 2’s on the AP exam). (National AP scholar with honors)
Keep in mind we have limited AP courses available (actual AP courses do not begin until grade 12, it is all “pre-AP” before that…so I did my best to cram as many in as possible)
Grade 12 Marks: Right now it is not even midterms, but since I fast tracked many courses, I have a few grade 12 credits. They are not as high as I would like them to be, but I was in grade 11 when I took them and I was also distracted by extracurriculars and SAT stuff, which only basically 2 other people in my grade have to deal with.
AP English 91%, AP Econ 86%, World Issues: 92%.
Current courses & predicted marks: AP Functions: 95%, AP Bio: 94%, AP Chem: 90%
(I will also have AP Calc/Data/Physics/French but those are next semester and I couldn’t give accurate projections)
In terms of extracurriculars, I stand out in my school, as I am the co-chair of the city youth council, president of Model UN, founded a club where I certify students in First-Aid, plenty of volunteer work, etc… But I have not done any amazing feed-starving-children/find-early-cancer-detection-method type work…</p>

<p>I’m really torn now, because many people are saying, retake SAT I, it’s too low, but retake SAT II if they are not in the 700’s…I don’t have my SAT II results back yet! I even missed the registration deadline so I’ll be on the waitlist…
What do you think?
Thank you for your advice!</p>

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<p>At least it seems you are at the top of your class, which is impressive in itself, and have made a good effort to exhaust your school curriculum. The numerous leadership positions you have are really good, too! I think the SAT score and the not-so-superb AP scores might still hurt you enough to mess up your chances, though. But if you don’t make the top schools you mentioned, you still stand a good chance at other places, so don’t feel too let down.</p>

<p>Usually colleges will get a pamphlet or some papers summarizing your school and its course offerings, etc. so presumably colleges will know about the limited AP offerings. At least that’s how it is for US schools.</p>

<p>When did you take the SAT Is? Were they both in junior year or was one in senior year?</p>

<p>If you can only be waitlisted for SAT IIs, then maybe go for the SAT I since you’re positive that those scores are sub-par, while you never know about the SAT IIs for the moment. I think you might even be able to choose not to submit some SAT II scores to certain colleges if they don’t request all your scores. Maybe ask around somewhere else in the forums, though, for extra input. Some colleges may weight certain scores more than others.</p>

<p>The lit SAT II, by the way, is very difficult. So don’t feel too bad.</p>

<p>In my opinion, I think it’s worth a shot to apply to the top colleges you really, really like. You’re obviously at the top of your class and maybe some schools will really appreciate that.</p>

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<p>I would say I am in the top 10%, but the top students generally take easier courses than the ones I am in, they have modest extracurriculars, and have not had to deal with SATs at all. My AP scores are not great, I really tried my best to cram them in since American schools stress on that. Apart from 1 other student, nobody in my grade has taken a single AP exam because they will only do it in May of senior year, due to the way the local curriculum is structured.
I will be wait listed for any SAT test, but I cannot figure out if it is possible to switch between SAT I and II after registration, since it is wait list and I don’t pay until the day of and all.
Do you have any specific advice for say, Stanford and UC Berkeley, particularly if I am interested in business and political science?
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with me, I really appreciate it. Sorry that this reply is hasty, I am rushing out the door.</p>

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<p>I’m not positive whether the colleges will use a weighted or unweighted GPA for international students, but if they were to convert to a weighted GPA it would take your difficult courses into account. Does your school release student rankings? </p>

<p>I’m not sure either. You could contact Collegeboard and ask about their waitlist policy and switching tests.</p>

<p>No, sorry, I don’t know a lot about Stanford or Berkeley. </p>

<p>and lol no problem.</p>

<p>Edit: perhaps this might be helpful: <a href=“http://www.collegeconfidential.com/dean/archives/000347.htm[/url]”>http://www.collegeconfidential.com/dean/archives/000347.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Hello fellow Canadian! </p>

<p>My DS is also going thru the same journey you are. We live out in the country, just outside the GTA - we used to live in East York before taking the plunge and buying several acres. </p>

<p>DS is “gifted” and started churning out the consistent 95% in grade 10 and doing even better in math and the sciences (he was goofing off before then; I was not concerned he took so long to get his act together because CND universities only use grade 11 and 12 years…yeeesh; little did I know about GPAs!). He actually got a 63% in gifted grade 9 math (after the mid semester report card he stopped doing the work and the teacher never called me). He got an 80% in grade 10 Gifted Math and a 96% in grade 11 Math (not gifted). I sure hope the schools look at his trend and not so much that grade 9 math mark.</p>

<p>He did so well in grade 11, I started investigating the top schools in the US and abroad …since I figured Waterloo would cost $25K per year (and just how much more could MIT cost???) and saw the financial aid amounts and so, in March we decided to give it a go to HPYM and Dartmouth.</p>

<p>DS wrote his first SAT in June with very little preparation and only the diagnostic test. He got 730 CR; 730 M and 580 W = 2040 - he is equally gifted/advanced in math as in reading/writing; took it again in October with major preparation and got 760 CR; 750 M and 710 W = 2220. He in now preparing for Math 2 and biology for the Dec test date. I think he could have brought his W score up more, but I hope 2220 or 1510 CR/M is good enough. His penmanship is very rough, no doubt that had an effect on his W score (10 Essay).</p>

<p>We don’t have AP or IB in our area but DS is taking a rigorous workload; 8 classes this year - 3 maths, physics; Gifted English plus programing, biology (took in grade 11), philosophy and music. He has great ECs mostly in student government, Reach for the Top; but no national awards, but he will take the Euclid math test in April (as he will be applying Waterloo for CS).</p>

<p>I am a status Indian (under the Indian Act; a recent Bill C3 challenge under the Bill of Rights and Freedoms, but I doubt he is eligible). But he is still (part) Aboriginal and if you heard the stories my grandparents went thru in the Residential School system, it would curl your hair, and these “issues” have affected my family; my 3 siblings have been in and out of the social assistance system. Not me, however, I got a Master degree and have a great job in the Ontario Gov’t. I do intend that he self identifies as American Indian. For you Americans, us Indians don’t consider the CND/US border when identifying our tribal affiliation so I am pretty sure we fit the “american indian” definition.</p>

<p>DS has lined up his 2 teacher recs (what a different system from our CND one) and those should be underway soon. We did want to apply SCEA to Princeton but only started cultivating those recs in mid Sept therefore, early Nov was too soon, so he bumped his Nov SAT 2s to Dec so he could study more.</p>

<p>Good Luck - I’ll keep my eye on your progress. DS is too busy to follow CC (he’s a gamer in his “spare time”; but I have found excellent resources and tips and CC is my “Go To” US College source.</p>

<p>If he does not get accepted to any of the schools, I am still happy he gave it a try. Waterloo for CS is his safety for now. Plus with the excellent Co-op program, I will actually have cash left over in his RESP plan for his younger sister to attend university. </p>

<p>Chi Megwetch.</p>

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<p>@kidsteph: despite the GPA, US colleges DO look to see if an applicant’s grades have improved over the years. In some cases, immense improvement can look better than straight As throughout high school.</p>

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<p>Thanks Apdenoatis!!! - that, I learned here on CC. I fancy myself being quite the Canadian expert on US college applications, all garnered through CC. Actually what I have learned is to NOT convert the marks into the GPA yourself, rather let the ad coms to review the real numbers, since conversion is not necessarily accurate and well, with his 2 marks in the 60s, I rather let the marks stand on their own.</p>

<p>Actually DS did well in grade 9 in spite of the dismal math score and a 65% in ComTec - 79.6% average. He was also in the French Immersion program, but due to taking so many music classes it was impossible to get all 10 high school french classes, and 8 gifted with so many scheduling conflicts so he only finished 5 of the french requirements…but is bilingual and that was the goal afterall. </p>

<p>In Canada, our system is so different from yours. Universities (and community colleges) only consider grade 11 and 12 marks; and usually only grade 11 for early acceptance. Had I been in your system, DS would have taken summer school to boost that grade 9 math mark (I did ask his teacher if he should and the teacher said he would likely not learn much in summer school). </p>

<p>DD is not “gifted” but keeps telling us she will do better than her brother and given her tenacity, I don’t doubt she can better her brother.</p>