Help! SAIS vs. KSG--Deadlocked!

<p>Hi Ladyseacow,</p>

<p>Here are my two cents: </p>

<p>R Guy/Helen: One criticism I've heard of SAIS is that there is no thesis project like at KSG. Does that hurt one in the job market/for further study?</p>

<p>To my knowledge, the lack of a thesis requirement does not affect one's job prospects (if anyone thinks otherwise, please chime in). In general, I think a thesis is seen as more of an academic exercise, whereas SAIS and most of the other IR schools (except Fletcher) are focused more on practical exercises. At SAIS, this takes the form of language study (which the majority of students do for their two years, although technically you only need to pass proficiency in one language), oral exams, and internships. The oral exams are given at the end of your second year and are conducted with economics professors and your concentration professors. They're basically discussions where you apply what you have learned over your two years (although you are being evaluated during the process, so maybe discussion isn't the best word...) An internship is not required (and some departments do discourage them), but I can tell you that most SAIS students (especially 2nd years) do have internships in DC, whether it is at an NGO, consulting firm, think tank, or govt. agency. So I think these aspects of the program are intended to focus on developing practical IR skills and prepare students for the working world. This isn't to suggest that a thesis isn't helpful.....on the contrary, I think it would allow you to learn much more about one specific issue. But I think in a cost/benefit analysis, the benefits of the practical aspects of the program outweigh the benefits of a thesis, especially given the type of work that most SAIS students intend to go into (i.e. not academic). </p>

<p>Have you heard that area studies folks are at a disadvantage when it comes to generalist jobs, e.g. at the World Bank/UN? I was looking at the graduates of the SEA program and it looks like a huge majority of them go on to jobs specifically related to SEA (often right in SEA).</p>

<p>That's a good question, and I don't know if I have a good answer for you there. The generalist/specialist debate has been going on for a long time. I will say that the majority of area studies students I know do get internships or jobs that at least relate to the area they concentrated in. This is partly because they're most competitive in those areas and partly because most of them genuinely want to specialize in those regions. I think if you take a lot of upper level econ classes (regardless of your concentration), you would be a good candidate for a World Bank job. A lot of it comes down to who you know (from networking) and how much you know in your interview, not so much what your specific concentration is. Remember, every SAIS student graduates with a dual concentration that includes international economics...it's built into your degree and it's on your diploma regardless of your "chosen" concentration. That is advantageous. As for the UN, I can't say much, but I have heard that it's very difficult to get hired if you're an American (due to quota limitations). Of course, if you're an international student, you don't have to worry about that so much. </p>

<p>Also, what's with the large number of people in the private sector? Is this because they cannot get employment in the public/non-profit or is that the starting intention?</p>

<p>I think SAIS attracts a lot of people who desire to go into the private sector because of its economics reputation. Whereas a lot of the other top tier IR schools have great programs in regional studies and other functional studies, I think SAIS is the only one with a very solid and established econ reputation. Furthermore, quite a few of the finance types are doing joint MBA programs with Wharton or Tuck, and I think SAIS is the only school with official joint degree programs with those schools. That being said, there are still a lot of students interested in development work (Intl. Development is the largest concentration at the school) and public service jobs (about 40 students from the graduating class were selected as Presidential Management Fellows this year). So you can definitely find your niche if you're not a finance or econ type. As for employment, I can tell you that it's much harder to get a job in the private sector (I'm talking mainly about finance) than it is in the public or non-profit sector. Getting a job in the govt or at an NGO is actually relatively easy.....the hard part is 1) getting a job you want to do and 2) getting a job that pays a reasonable salary. Now THAT is difficult.</p>

<p>I agree with AS08! People are so helpful on this board! Thank you so very much! Definitely very helpful!</p>

<p>I've heard that SAIS can tend to be politically conservative? True? How does this affect folks in the classroom/job searches, etc?</p>

<p>Hi Ladyseacow,</p>

<p>If you look at the student body, SAIS is not very conservative at all. For example, in a recent candidate poll in the school newspaper, about 60% of the student body supported Obama, 20% supported Hillary, and 10-15% supported McCain (the remainder supported other candidates). Although this wasn't a scientific poll, it still gives you an impression of what direction the student body leans in....which is to say liberal. Of course, some departments have more conservative students than others....in general, there are more conservatives in Strategic Studies than there are in International Development. That being said, most of the SAIS conservatives I know are orientated more towards the center than the extreme. </p>

<p>Honestly, I think the low numbers of conservative students is pretty typical of all IR schools, since most die-hard conservatives aren't too attracted to the idea of studying international relations. Of course there are exceptions, but I think that's a fair generalization. There are also a lot of international students at the school (about 40%), and few of them fall into the American categories of "conservative" and "liberal."</p>

<p>The school's conservative rep, if it even has one, probably stems from the fact that there are a few prominent conservatives in the faculty. Paul Wolfowitz was the dean in the 90's, and he recruited several conservative academics, including Francis ***uyama (who used to be a neo-con, but is now something else, although no one knows what exactly), Eliot Cohen (who is currently working for Secretary Rice), and Fouad Ajami (who actually lives in NYC and is rarely around...he is also the one who is the most vocal about his political leanings). Beyond those professors, I don't know of any other prominent conservatives at the school. The school's new administration (or should I say post-Wolfowitz) is decidedly centrist, and my feeling is that Wolfowitz is persona non grata at the school (although that of course isn't the official line). Even though he still lives and works in DC, he has never been invited to speak at SAIS and to my knowledge has no interaction or affiliation with the school anymore. So much the better, in my opinion. </p>

<p>All this being said, you're unlikely to find any true leftist professors at SAIS....although there are a few I know of who are pretty liberal. Furthermore, the economics department is decidedly neo-liberal (read: Washington consensus), so don't expect any diversity of thought there. Then again, learning a Marxist interpretation of economics is unlikely to prepare you well for a future policy job in the gov't, private sector, or even most NGO's. </p>

<p>So I guess the simple answer to your question is that I don't think SAIS as a whole is politically conservative. If anything, it's very centrist (within the American political spectrum).</p>

<p>
[quote]
Have you heard that area studies folks are at a disadvantage when it comes to generalist jobs, e.g. at the World Bank/UN? I was looking at the graduates of the SEA program and it looks like a huge majority of them go on to jobs specifically related to SEA (often right in SEA).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Is this board still active?</p>

<p>Anyway, the question would be at a disadvantage compared to what? To other generalist Master's degrees such as that of the Kennedy School? I'd say no. </p>

<p>To other people? If these people have PhDs in things like economics or public health (depending on the institution), decidedly yes. The World Bank, for instance, has a huge bias against non-PhDs.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I've heard that SAIS can tend to be politically conservative? True? How does this affect folks in the classroom/job searches, etc?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>God no. I remember a Republican classmate commenting to me how she thought SAIS students were all a bunch of liberals and that she felt out of place.</p>

<p>Wolfowitz is persona non grata because he was fraternizing with an employee at SAIS and I think got the school sued. Yes, it's good he's not around, since he's an evil ideologue that has f***ed things for this country, IMO.</p>

<p>Hello everyone,</p>

<p>first off, thanks to everybody for all the info, invaluable!</p>

<p>so here's my dilemma:</p>

<p>I'd like to get a masters degree that will:
- allow me to pursue interest in development economics, especially with regards to Middle East, eventually get a PhD
- at the same time, I'd like to have the opportunity to explore different subjects that I don't really know about, such as political theory or international relations (incidentally, what is the difference between IR and international affairs?)</p>

<p>the idea is to work at WB, UN, OECD etc for a little while, and then maybe do a little pol/econ consulting more independently later on</p>

<p>here's my background:</p>

<p>dual national French/US
two years econ in Sorbonne University Paris
double BA Econ & Psych at georgetown, GPA 3.1 (yeah, I f** up)
Peace Corps 2006 - 2008
GRE 730V 750Q 4.5W</p>

<p>I'm still in Peace Corps, so I can't attend any open houses, I was wondering if I could get your feedback on the following programs</p>

<p>Georgetown MPP (accepted, 10K funding, deferred til 09)
SIPA (accepted, no funding, deferred til 09)
Harvard KSG MPA-ID (thinking of applying this year)
Yale MA-IR (same)
Fletcher (same)
U of Chicago CIR (same)
SAIS (IDEV? IECON?)
WWS (dinged last year, doubt it would change this time around)</p>

<p>I've got doubts about SIPA, mostly because I need some personal attention from faculty (I'm big on the socratic method of bouncing ideas and concepts off of other people), and I've heard SIPA has bad rep.</p>

<p>any advice?</p>