<p>I am applying to PhD programs in Cognitive/Behavioral Neuroscience this fall and need to cut a few programs off of my list. I love all of the programs on my list and have identified several faculty at each school who are great research fits, but to make it easier on my LORs I want to whittle my list of 12 schools down to... 10 (or 9?). I understand that there are no "safety schools" in PhD admissions, but I want to be reasonably confident that I will get in somewhere (without forsaking my chance at reach schools with perfect faculty matches).</p>
<p>-I have a low GPA (a 3.0)... albeit in a Neuroscience major at a strong, highly-ranked school known for grade deflation... but it is still a very low GPA
-high GRE scores (750Q, 740V, 5.5W on old GRE)
-6 years of neuroscience research experience (4 years working 25-30 hrs/week as undergrad, and 2 years full-time post-bac)</p>
<p>How many schools is too much of a hassle for most LOR writers? How can I whittle down this list to 10 or 9 schools? Will Stanford, Columbia, NYU etc., simply see my 3.0 GPA and toss my app in the "no" pile?</p>
<p>(Ordered by average quantitative GRE score of admitted students (a crude measure, I know)):
U Maryland- Baltimore
U Colorado - Boulder
U Illinois - Chicago
Oregon Health & Sciences
U Minnesota - Twin Cities
U Colorado - Denver
U Oregon
U Maryland - College Park
Georgetown
Columbia
NYU CNS
Stanford</p>
<p>I don’t know if cutting out 2-3 schools will make a difference to your LOR writers, unless they are tailoring each and every letter to each school (aside from little changes). If they need to mail the letters directly to the school themselves, be sure to give them pre-addressed, stamped envelopes so that all they need to do is put their letter in them and put the pile in the mailbox. If the letters come back to you and you send everything in one giant packet, then still include envelopes with each school name on it for them to seal and sign. As long as you provide them with everything they need in an organized, simplified way, I don’t think they will mind sending out 12 letters. My prof suggested applying to 10-12 schools, so I assumed he wouldn’t have minded sending letters to that many.</p>
<p>Dont be shy about LORs. It’s part of your professors’/supervisors’ jobs to do this. They’re accustomed to it. </p>
<p>One of my professors already sent out letters for all my 9 schools. I can’t say how good they are, but regardless, writing/sending multiple letters is a lot easier for the professors than we believe.</p>
<p>The only thing I’d caution you about is selecting quality programs that your professor agrees with. For example, I had a safety school on my list that I didn’t really care about and didn’t have the program I wanted to join. When I showed my professor my list he immediately called it out - “XX? that’s kind of an egg school…” I instantly knew I shouldn’t apply there. If I still went ahead and sent him a letter request for that school, it might have raised his eyebrows. I don’t want him to feel like I’m wasting his time by not taking his advice. Anything from a professor like “I didn’t know they had a XX program…” is a red flag. </p>
<p>Remember these professors know the strength of other university programs. If anything, they might be able to help you narrow the list. But I think as long as they don’t say anything negative (like in my case), you’re good for as many as you want.</p>
<p>Thank you both so much for the advice and reassurance. It is such a relief to hear that it won’t be much more of a burden for my LORs to write 12 (versus 9 or 10) letters… I am so enthralled by professors/research at each of the schools on my list that it was literally painful to think of having to eliminate the school from contention.</p>
<p>I still am curious as to how the admission process works at the most highly selective schools; does Stanford (etc.) actually give all applicants full review, or would my GPA be below some certain threshold and thereby send my application directly to the “no” pile? At UOregon, the admission process is clearly stated as beginning with a linear index cutoff whereby all applications with a GPA-GRE score combo below their predetermined cutoff point are eliminated. I wonder how many other schools do this, and what kind of numbers are used…</p>
<p>Good question. Admissions processes are rarely divulged by the University. That information you were privy to at Oregon is interesting. That said, the way Oregon does their admissions is *likely *how most schools, especially the top schools, do their admissions. They just can’t admit it though because then they’d get fewer applicants, which means a greater acceptance rate, which looks bad for “prestige” and “selectivity.” I bet if you called each school you still wouldn’t get a straight answer. Another reason they wouldn’t admit to using that process is because there are always special cases and exceptions. Ultimately, I do think there’s such thing as a “no” pile at the most selective schools. Nobody knows however, so the best approach is to put your best foot forward but don’t expect anything in return. </p>
<p>On a sidenote;
I know that at UCLA undergraduate admissions, the way it works is that 1 person reads your personal statement. If they like it, they pass it to someone else. If that person likes it, 1 last person has to approve it before they make their final decision. So at UCLA undergrad you have to get through AT LEAST 3 people who like your statement. I don’t know where this fits in with GPA/SAT stats, however.</p>
<p>Surprisingly, Oregon’s admission process was actually posted publicly on their website, but you have to dig around quite a bit to find it. And you’re right, special cases probably do exist as well. I guess at the end of the day, I’d regret not applying to those most selective schools… if nothing else, it’ll be $125 for the peace of mind of not having to wonder whether I might have gotten in.</p>
<p>maverickjay - that’s a great list; I’ve accumulated a list of that info for another 30 or so schools that I can post up when I get the chance. Minnesota, for instance, has average GRE 680Q, 600 V, avg gpa 3.5, and wants GRE scores in the 80-85th %. According to Minnesota’s website, ([The</a> Graduate School : University of Minnesota : Program Reports](<a href=“http://www.grad.umn.edu/data/stats/ad/1059000.html]The”>http://www.grad.umn.edu/data/stats/ad/1059000.html)) they only accepted 7% of last year’s applicants. I guess my hope was that my GRE scores being far above their average would help to compensate for my low GPA. With such a low GPA, I can’t look at any school as a safety.</p>
<p>As for Stanford… they probably has so many well-qualified applicants that they could easily build a class entirely of 4.0-1600s with research experience… but I guess there are reasons why the admissions process isn’t entirely computerized (…yet).</p>
<p>oh, and re: Georgetown and other such schools who don’t fund international students… all I can say is wow, this admission process is hard enough as a U.S. citizen; I forget how much harder it must be as an international student who has to deal with all of these different road blocks!</p>
<p>if you would let me know what you research has yielded on some middle teir schools that would be awesome as I need a few more that I can consider “safeties”. I’m surprised to find out that even minnesota has a 7% admit rate. perhaps there are many unqualified students who apply?</p>
<p>There really aren’t any “safeties” for admission to funded graduate programs. The number of students applying is always significantly greater than the number of funded seats available in any given program.</p>
<p>5-10% admit rates are par for the course for Ph.D programs.</p>
<p>@maverickjay: even at lower tier schools, acceptance rates can be low, depending on the field and the size of the program. Students still need to be funded, and the program’s budget/independent funding keeps the numbers low. That said, you’ll find a different applicant pool at a lower tier school than you will at a top ten. </p>
<p>At any level of prestige, you’ll find that a lot of applicants either are not of the matching academic quality or have not sufficiently researched the program to discern how they will fit in. Some either don’t know or cannot articulate their reasons for pursuing advanced study. Even once a program weeds out all these people, it still has to make tough choices about who to admit and fund. </p>
<p>While, as Polarscribe says, there aren’t any safeties for admission to funded graduate programs, you can determine the programs where you’ll likely to fit, in terms of both qualifications and research interests. This increases your chances of acceptance.</p>
<p>hat said, the way Oregon does their admissions is likely how most schools, especially the top schools, do their admissions. They just can’t admit it though because then they’d get fewer applicants, which means a greater acceptance rate, which looks bad for “prestige” and “selectivity.” I bet if you called each school you still wouldn’t get a straight answer.</p>
<p>I don’t think I agree with this. Even if schools such as Stanford and NYU publicized their admission policies, they would still have very low acceptance rates because those programs are prestigious and popular. In fact, imposing some kind of lower GPA limit or talking about a quantitative formula would make their job easier, because some of the people with lower stats would not apply, giving them fewer applications to look through. And at the graduate level, acceptance rates aren’t the metric by which programs are measured - many programs don’t even publicize their doctoral program acceptance rates. It’s by research productivity. That’s all that matters; that’s how hiring happens, tenure happens, and promotions happen.</p>
<p>Rather, I think these places don’t publicize a specific method because they don’t have one. They don’t want to rule out the superstar with 3 publications who tanked undergrad but got a great master’s GPA, or the brilliant researcher who did do so well on their GRE, or so on and so forth. It’s really just such a subjective process that they don’t want to tie themselves down to any one method.</p>
<p>But yes, I think letter writers are used to writing for around 12 schools and I think you should apply to all of them if they are good fits.</p>
<p>Mom - are you saying you can almost predict where you’ll get accepted to? IOW, if you feel good about a school/your personal statement to them, they’ll feel good about you?</p>