Non genius applicants

Graduate School
1

<p>After browsing some of the stats of the people on here checking to see if they can get into the HYP category of graduate schools (or top tier in their field), and on the whogotin network website...it seems to me that all of the candidates are, well, geniuses. Sky high GPAs and GRE scores, publications, research, etc.</p>

<p>Are there any REAL candidates out there, with perfectly acceptable or average GPAs that are thinking about applying to grad school, or people who got into graduate school with seemingly normal GPAs. I know I personally get very discouraged looking at these people when I've known I've wanted to get my doctorate since high school, and it thus appears I won't get in, well, anywhere.</p>

<p>FYI--I'm in the bio sciences, but anyone replying to this doesn't necessarily have to be.</p>

2

<p>I think I speak for most of the people here with the enviable stats that we’re all “real” and certainly don’t consider ourselves geniuses. I know for sure there are people here who talk about getting into great programs with a 3.3 GPA, or no publications, etc. </p>

<p>If you don’t have the best stats coming out of undergrad and don’t like your chances at your dream programs, then a few years working in research will do wonders. It’s the perfect way to get some publications, a stunning LOR, some solid lab experience, and confidence in yourself. Many people who are accepted into top programs have taken some time off since undergrad, and as a result were much more appealing candidates. Post-bacs are a great equalizer.</p>

3

<p>Op- What is your gpa? GRE scores?</p>

4

<p>You don’t have to be a genius to have great stats and research experience. It’s mostly just hard work, time management, and proper planning.</p>

5

<p>Battlo–GPA is currently a 3.31 and trending upward (although I hope inorganic chem II doesn’t kill me this semester…chemistry is what’s brought my GPA down that far), and I haven’t taken the GRE yet as I’ll be a junior this fall but I have started some light studying. I know I’ll score strong on the verbal section judging by some of the practice questions etc I’ve done, math I’m going to give it my best shot with a lot of practice. </p>

<p>The research experience is what’s killing me…I’ve sent out close to 30 emails to professors and none of them are even biting. I’ve had several at least email me back saying their labs are full, one asked for my transcript and a bunch of info about me but never responded after that, and then ONE said she’s interested and to come talk to her when we get back for the fall semester. </p>

<p>I’d love to get into a top 10 school, but I’m pretty sure with my grades (and trust me, I do work hard and study, but chemistry has kicked my ass. One B in a biology class and the rest A’s…tutoring didn’t even help for ochem I/II :slight_smile: that’s almost out of the question. I’m perfectly content going to a midtier school, I’ve been looking at Georgetown as some of you know, as well as some of the upper middle tier east coast schools. Don’t want you guys to think I"m bitter because the ‘ivies’ of sciences are kind of out of my reach at this point :]</p>

6

<p>Heya, </p>

<p>I really understand your feelings. I’m in biosciences and recently finished the life consuming applying to grad school phase. </p>

<p>Reading stats of people on here I was really scared going into it. I had a 3.2 GPA and an 1190 GRE. I had some D’s and F’s on my record (due to exceptional personal difficulty) and really thought I wasn’t going to get in anywhere. </p>

<p>To top it off, I had the two body problem (trying to get into the same school with my fiance). </p>

<p>And of course, I was applying with tons of people who had stats <em>way</em> better than what I mentioned above. I don’t know what your situation is, probably isn’t as bad as mine was but here is what I did to make my application more competitive with what I had. </p>

<p>I got into one of the few labs in my small, unknown undergrad school that did research I was interested in. I wasn’t too hot on the project or the organismal model being used, but hey. </p>

<p>I worked a lot, volunteered for a low pay lab tech job for the lab, worked all summer for no credit to get the project moving, suggested my own ideas for the next step in the research, etc. Basically anything that showed the PI’s I was interested, dedicated, and able. This got me very good LOR. I can’t stress how important knowledge of and experience in research was in my interviews. </p>

<p>I spent a lot of time on my personal statement. I drafted them over and over, gave them to <em>everyone</em> to read, and made sure to explain any less than spectacular grades or low points in my transcripts without dwelling on them (a very important and difficult thing to do). I mentioned it once and moved on, with the majority of my statement dedicated to what I wanted to do in the future and at grad school. I was really specific in what I was interested in and how I got interested in it and that helped a lot. </p>

<p>Something I wish I would have done was do mock interviews - I really sucked in some of them because I was so nervous. </p>

<p>I applied to 14 schools (again - I had the two body problem so it is a lot!) and got into 3 of them. Two were upper mid range PhD programs, one was a prestigious private school with many world famous PIs. </p>

<p>I was actually told by a famous PI at the private school that every other interviewee’s gpa was <em>way</em> above mine and it would be very difficult for me to get an acceptance. </p>

<p>I wish you luck, there are so many people on this forum that post freaking out about wondering if they will get accepted anywhere with a 3.9 GPA and perfect GPA score, it really freaks us normal people out. </p>

<p>It is definitely possible with normal scores, you just have to work harder.</p>

7

<p>We’re only as good as we are. I know that sounds really dull, but the only thing we should focus on is to work hard in a right direction - by doing tons of research and getting some insights from the expert in the field. </p>

<p>Now, don’t sweat about getting into top 10 or 20 school. First of all, the school’s rank mainly reflects the average probability of being successful. Each school certainly has its own strength and this depends on the person and fit with the lab/PI. Plus, we’re talking about research here: things may be unpredictable (e.g. your specific topic might be the future hot topic, etc). </p>

<p>In regard to admission competitiveness, it’s probably true that top 10 school is filled with geniuses, however, there are rooms for outliers. From my own experience, I have gone to interviews where most of the candidates have much better stats than me, and vice versa. Past the interview processes, I know some friends who declined top 10 school for top 20 / 30. There are many different factors in deciding, and so not all the top students go to top schools - meaning you won’t be the only smart one in a mid-tier school. A prof and a grad student once told me that the difference between top 10 and top 30 is pretty vague; it’s probably true considering the infinite number of factors involved in a person’s research career. </p>

<p>So don’t get discouraged! Work hard and enjoy every moment. Happiness is what really counts.</p>

8

<p>Shoebox has written an excellent post about what it takes to make up for deficiencies. </p>

<p>All it takes is to get that one positive response, as you have had, to make the difference. FWIW, my daughter attends a LAC where select first years are put on research projects right away, making it difficult for upperclassmen to gain access. The labs often get filled with a continuous supply of new students and upperclassmen who started in the lab. Without this “in,” my daughter did exactly what you did; she found out about specific research projects being headed by the profs, and emailed each of them with the reasons why she wanted to work on the project. One didn’t answer. Two said that their labs were full. The fourth told her to contact her in the fall to see if there were any openings. Sound familiar? She immediately replied to the fourth prof and said that she looked forward to talking to her in September. One week before my D was due to arrive back on campus, she replied again to the original response (so the prof would be reminded of their earlier exchange in the quoted portion) to say that she would be on campus at such-and-such a date. When could they meet? And yes, my daughter got into the lab. She was just invited back for another year. The project wasn’t her first choice, but she has found the experience invaluable. </p>

<p>I advise you to tell the professor who responded, or any others you contact in the future, that you are planning to go to graduate school. This kind of ambition gets their attention, especially since they’ve taken this path themselves and know how important it is to mentor future researchers.</p>

9

<p>I think/hope i’m as real as it gets.
I graduated from undergrad with a 3.024 gpa (i know i know…i’m dumb:( )
was lucky enough to get a job in a pharmaceutical company…worked there for 3 years then applied to 8 schools…including Yale and Johns Hopkins…just for laughs. I got offers to interview for 6 of the 8 schools…i only went to 4 interviews and I got accepted to all four including Yale and Hopkins.
Oh…i got a 1300 on the GRE and did not take the subject test and all my LORs were from my manager and senior scientists in my department.</p>

<p>I think what made me stand out was that I didn’t go straight out from undergrad…i’m more sure of myself and what i want out of my PhD experience.
That and somebody up there really loves me.
@ soccergurl…i say apply to all the schools that are doing interesting science that you’d want to be involved with…what’s the worst they can say? NO? Funny enough…i didnt get into many of my “safe schools”</p>

10

<p>Essence: I think this grad forum would be very well served to have you share your experience whenever applicable. It really highlights the importance of scientific maturity in applicants, and that top schools aren’t all strictly numbers.</p>

<p>Congratulations on your acceptances!</p>

11

<p>You can try applying to labs outside the university, like at a nearby med school or medical center. Some biomedical labs seek undergrads to help out with research stuff. It is possible to get into a grad school with a 3.3 gpa, but you should try performing well on the General GRE and the GRE Biology Subject Test. Usually, a high score on such a standardized exam could boost your application. You should also apply to a broader range of schools.</p>

<p>Another thing, getting into a top tier school shouldn’t be your immediate goal. Just concentrate on making your credentials stronger any way you can, and let the admissions commmittee decide. What’s the worse thing they can do, say no? It’s not going to be the end of the world. A lot of people who get their PhD from “Mediocre University” end up getting jobs at top tier schools, so it’s not like all hope will be gone if you don’t get in “Ivy League University”.</p>

12

<p>soccergurl7988,
you may want to reconsider the criteria you are using for selection of a place to spend 5-6 years of your life. are you selecting schools solely based on the tier? is that the most important thing to you?
particularly because, by targetwalmart’s view of 2nd tier (apparently anything from 20-30 in the ranking of, i can only assume, usnews), most of the ivies-ie princeton, columbia, upenn, cornell, etc.- are actually in the second tier or lower. i just had to throw that out there because i think it is kind of funny (:
past your undergrad there are more important things to consider than if something is considered prestigious by the general population. what you should, in my opinion, be concerned about is the quality of research in the area that you are interested in and if there are particularly interesting faculty that you want to work with. that is all that matters. for phd the name of your school is secondary to the name of your pi and/or their connections.
also, please don’t just go to go. there is no need to settle on something you are not particularly enthusiastic about- even if that enthusiasm is based on tier, as it is for a lot of people. you will need all the enthusiasm you have to make it through!
as others have mentioned it is possible to get in pretty much anywhere. after all, sometimes intellegence is not about rote memorization and doing good on exams that test what you were taught in high school. get creative. if you need to, spend some time in a lab after you graduate- not just to increase your chances of getting into a great place but also to pick up some new skills and keep learning.
good luck- you’ll do fine if you do want you really want to do!</p>

13

<p>soccergurl7988…I’ve felt you pain…and then some. My GPA out of College was similar to yours. It trended upward thru my junoir and senoir year. I’m an engineer. I applied to Masters(not even PhD and I was willing to pay) programs out of college, and did not get my first, second third, or fourth choices. I got my Masters though, and worked for a number of years after that. I reapplied to PhD programs with significant work experience that was very relavant to research being done at these schools. Got into a Phd program that was truly tied for my first choice school…a school usually ranked about 5 to 7 in my field and overall. A school that had turned me down as a Masters student years earlier. My work experience was the key I believe. This game is a long one…at least for me.</p>

<p>…and by the way. Sometimes the 4.00 won’t do it. These PhD schools look for fits, research experience, and other cool experiences. I went to a very good liberal arts school. I’ve seen the person who was literally top in has class do worse at getting into top grad schools than somebody with below 3.50 GPA because of fit, research experience and letters of recommendation.</p>

<p>My advice is get research experience or other cool experiences. A guy I knew from college got into the peace corps and taught in some god forsaken place. He was not a 4.00 student, but got into Harvard physics PhD after that peace corp experience.</p>

14

<p>I’m definitely going to do whatever it takes to get my doctorate, I have no doubt that that’s what I want to do. I find the lab portions of classes to be rather relaxing…haha. I was really just curious as to if there were more people out there who felt the way I do (that the grad school applicant pool is 99% 4.0/sky high GRE scores/20 publications and 1% average) and what their advice was.</p>

<p>Btw, in our local newspaper there’s an article about a forensics lab that has recently (2003) opened, I’m thinking about giving them a call to see if they’d take me on as an intern for the rest of the summer, even if it’s just one or two days a week. I know it’s not the same as a biotech company, but would that help? Or be more useless science filler, haha. Thanks guys</p>

15

<p>Dude, I was far from a genius. I had a 1530 GRE score, but my GPA was a 3.4 and I had two and a half years of research experience as an undergrad assistant, no publications, no famous professors writing me recommendations, came from the #77 ranked LAC. I currently attend Columbia for my Ph.D.</p>

<p>If your major GPA is much higher than the cumulative, that helps a lot. It seems like your major GPA is really high, so that will outweigh your average cum GPA. My major GPA was a bit higher than my cum, too, and that helped a lot. GRE score doesn’t matter so much – as long as you break 1200 you should be good, and being really high within that doesn’t really matter. Also, start working on your personal statement early and like Shoebox said, show it to <em>everyone</em> – anyone who will read it.</p>

16

<p>
[QUOTE=soccergurl7988]

the grad school applicant pool is 99% 4.0/sky high GRE scores/20 publications and 1% average

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>You were probably exaggerating when you wrote that, but that’s definitely not the case, even at the very best programs. Most people don’t have publications (maybe one) and the average GPA to top programs is probably in the 3.7-3.8 range.</p>

17

<p>Yeah, I have to agree. I consider myself a little more average than the average on this board. I just search on US news and report and my school isn’t even listed! I see all these comments from people saying they have “okay” averages of about 3.5 and “okay” GRE scores that are still really high and have great recommendation from “okay” schools that are ranked in the top 50. Average people represent!</p>

18

<p>Wow, same situation here. 3.4GPA with a 3.2GPA in Chemistry, which is the type of program i am seeking post college.</p>

<p>My dad, who is very practical, told me I would be begging for food on the streets and that I’m not smart enough for sciences. He’s urging me to try to apply to med school after a masters or to simply drop science and go into accounting. </p>

<p>I’m hoping he’s just trying to scare me. He’s a biochemist and hates his life and says that I will too if I do chemistry. I’m as average as it gets and chemistry isn’t a field for average people.</p>

19

<p>coming from a biochemist…ur dad is one smart man…you better run run away from chemistry</p>

20

<p>^^^</p>

<p>Exactly what I’m afraid of. I want him to be wrong, but if he’s right I’m gonna be miserably post college.</p>