<p>ND Is 77% white! Is the OPs sister really that far off? </p>
<p>Have you ever read the website “Stuff White People Like?” Check it out. As members of the majority culture, we see our choices about clothes, music, etc. as normal and inclusive but in reality many of our choices read as “white.” Which isn’t to say there isn’t cross-over, of course. It’s just that we may not be aware of how what is normal to us reads as “exclusive” to others.</p>
<p>I never said that the OP spoke for all minorities, I was simply pointing out that it’s a bit odd to offer up a Jewish man’s experience to say this about an Asian woman;
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<p>It was the “wants everyone to believe” part that struck me.</p>
<p>I don’t think her parents wanting her to visit ND is that odd (a little odd, yes) but I do think it’s very odd that they took her with them if her vote was not going to count.</p>
<p>pugmadkate, if you had written “are” in place of “feel”, I would have no objection whatever to this student refusing to attend ND. Based on what I’ve seen with my children’s friends (and son’s longtime gf), I conclude that attitude can be the key to finding a place. “Feeling” isolated and left out can be a self-fulfilling prophecy. </p>
<p>I am inclined to agree with some of the other posters that if this financial offer is extremely good, it is worth giving it a try, keeping in back of the mind the option to transfer.</p>
<p>I’ll be the third to ask why ND was on the list in the first place if the racial make-up is offensive to this student.</p>
<p>Yes, it can be a key. Or it may not make a difference. That majorities exclude minorities is not a figment of this young woman’s imagination. That trying to deal with a new culture can be too much for a young person just starting college is not a figment either. The idea that a minority student can (or should be expected) to win over people with their can-do attitude is not one I find very fair. Some kids are up to that extra budren, some are not.</p>
<p>All I am saying that an Asian woman is in a heck of a lot better place to judge how the culture at ND relates to her than I am as a white woman. </p>
<p>Also, I have never seen so many adults jump on a student for questioning “fit.” I’ve seen parents on here talk about their kids not liking the dorms and the food. The responses are just shurgs and encouraging words like, “What can you do? Your student will find their place.” </p>
<p>If only the OP had said their sister didn’t like that the campus was rural, there’d be no problem.</p>
<p>^^^Actually, if the OP had said his sister didn’t like the fact that ND is rural, that would have been a problem, because ND is not rural. It is stuck in a medium-sized declining rust belt city.</p>
<p>For the record, I am not a big advocate of “fit”, at least not as many high-school students determine it. My son is a happy and successful student at a university nobody would have considered a good fit for him. Upon considering their financial offer, he made two in-depth visits and concluded the stereotypes were way overblown. Also, he is a very self-confident, not-shy person, so is good at making things fit. </p>
<p>This student knows herself better than we do, and she has a lot to consider. Her own personality is a major factor.</p>
<p>Well, parents could be more flexible and tell her which ones they could afford paying and which ones they could not, or just give her specific $$ amount. They can point out that the rest is up to her, the balance would be her responsibility. Would it not solve the conflict?</p>
<p>Oh, for goodness sake, you know what I meant. Kids reject colleges based on the dorm food, location, dorms and all sorts of things that get no response. Yet a student who would find her race reflected back to her in less than 10% of the population is a cause for uproar. </p>
<p>You say you are not a big advocate of “fit.” What if your son had visited and felt uncomfortable? What if he were shy? Would you have insisted he go anyway? Because having a child make two in-depth visits sounds like fit was a big concern.</p>
<p>MiamiDAP, Yes! I really feel for this student. My kid is a junior in high school and he has a lot more information about what is a “yes” and what is a “no” than the OPs sister. Give the poor kid a firm anwser. Even if she doesn’t like the answer, at least she can start making plans.</p>
<p>I don’t think that there would be much difference in the bottom line advice on this thread if we were talking about rural instead of racial considerations. The big problem is that the family is in DIRE straits money wise–that is what is driving the discussion toward OP’s sister taking a real hard look at ND. </p>
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<p>I suspect that it would be work to fit in as an Asian woman at ND. In California, you don’t even have to think about it, especially on a UC campus. </p>
<p>I agree that ND may not be a good fit for OP’s sister, but the prospect of a free education at a darn good school is enticing. But if she isn’t willing to “work to fit in” at ND, going to ND could be a disaster.</p>
<p>I say, let’s assume ND is off the table. What can be done to make college happen for this young lady considering that her family can’t make any contribution through $$ and loans?</p>
<p>I would think that UCLA (with her taking out loans and working during the school year and during the summer) while living at home could be accomplished.</p>
<p>Otherwise, I’d go the CC route and transfer. Dicier, but you would be able to cut the amount of loans in half.</p>
<p>pugmadkate, in response to your question to me: He made two in-depth visits in order to determine if the educational opportunities were going to meet his requirements. He had an EA acceptance to his favorite university already in hand, so it was a decision that required some thought. “Fit” has different meaning to different people. As I already said, the OP’s sibling has her own personality to consider.</p>
<p>I concur with one of the posters, above, who pointed out the difficulties some universities are having overcoming cultural homogeneity. Generous financial packages are a useful lure, but only if the recipient is a bit of an explorer at heart.</p>
<p>“How many of your children are going to a school where their race is only reflected in 7% of the student body?”</p>
<ul>
<li>My son has had classes where he is virtually the only white student. He found this neither threatening nor uncomfortable; he found it humorous.</li>
</ul>
<p>“What happend to “fit?””</p>
<ul>
<li>In this case, “fit” may have to take a back seat to “need.” What are the parents supposed to do? Take out loans that they cannot afford and endanger their futures? All because a kid does not feel “comfortable” with frisbee throwing, BBQ-loving white folks? Again, I think that “need” is more important than “want.”</li>
</ul>
<p>By the way, ND is not that far off from the demographic makeup of the US. Using Census Bureau figures and the ND numbers given here:</p>
<p>Agreed, midmo!! Doesn’t sound like OP’s sister has the heart for it.</p>
<p>As to the question of how ND got on the college list in the first place, I wonder if someone had told OP’s parents that ND was a school that was generous to Asians when it came to financial aid and scholarships. Since there aren’t many good colleges that consider Asians a URM, this would have been music to the ears of a family that had no money for college and didn’t want to risk loans.</p>
<p>pugmadkate, I don’t really want to generalize this discussion too far past the OP’s particular concern, but I think there is too much concentration here on race, and race alone, as a factor. At my son’s public high school, a very diverse school in terms of race, ethnicity and income (college town with no viable private high schools), all of the science and math teams and clubs, and many of the other activities such as quiz bowl teams, debate team, were majority Asian (Chinese, Korean, Pakistani, Indian, Burmese (Myanmar), Taiwanese, Nepalese, and more). These are the kids my son got to know and became close friends with. They were united by common interests, not entirely academic, but interest in intellectual accomplishment was an underlying commonality. If the OP’s sister had said she hated ND because she didn’t find a single student with a common interest, that would make sense. But that does not seem to be the case, at least as far as we know.</p>
<p>Looks like Stanford and UCLA are pretty unrepresentative of the US as a whole, doesn’t it?</p>
<p>ND has about 8300 undergraduate students. If 7% are Asian, that means there are about 581 Asian-American undergraduate students with whom the student could form racial bonds.</p>
<p>As it happens, I simply cannot stand ND. I root against it every chance I get, and I just LOVE it when SC demolishes ND in football. I consider it a pretty good day when Jimmy Clausen gets his bell rung by SC linebackers.</p>
<p>However, if my son were in the same situation as the student in question, you’d better believe that he would be going to ND. “Like” is not as important as “family need.”</p>
<p>Racial comparisons with the total population are meaningless. More meaningful are comparisons with the aggregate makeup of the total college population in 4-year schools.</p>
<p>“Racial comparisons with the total population are meaningless. More meaningful are comparisons with the aggregate makeup of the total college population in 4-year schools.”</p>
<p>If a disproportionately low number of minority students go to college, it isn’t fair to expect every institution to be 13.4% Black and 14.8% Hispanic. As rough as it sounds, there aren’t enough to go around.</p>
<p>“If a disproportionately low number of minority students go to college, it isn’t fair to expect every institution to be 13.4% Black and 14.8% Hispanic. As rough as it sounds, there aren’t enough to go around.”</p>
<p>Yet that is precisely what the advocates of diversity expect. And when the expectation is not met, some students are apparently willing to forego a free ride to a place like ND, even when the family is under financial pressure.</p>
<p>As the parent of a ND student, I hope for his sake, and the sake of his classmates, that the OP’s sister goes elsewhere. It’s no fun to be around someone who does not want to be there, especially someone whose definition of “diversity” seems to be “more people who look like me.”
And imagine the criticism that would be hurled at a white student who didn’t like Berkeley because of all the Asians hanging out together in packs and doing stereotypical Asian things like studying all of the time and playing the violin.</p>