<p>Here is a link to the Asian American Association at ND.</p>
<p>[University</a> of Notre Dame - Asian America Association](<a href=“http://www.nd.edu/~aaa/about/about.html]University”>http://www.nd.edu/~aaa/about/about.html)</p>
<p>I would like to hear from minority parents what they think of the following post:</p>
<p>"“If my child were a minority, I would not encourage my child to go to school, work, socialize or live anywhere they did not feel comfortable due to their race or gender.”</p>
<p>Not a minority, but my D went from a h.s. that was 89% White to a u. that is 41% White. While I have not asked her the question, I have no doubt that she would have felt more “comfortable” with a 89% white student body because that is what she was used to, but so what? She is happy where she is and broadening her horizons in a good way, with a much more racially diverse educational experience.</p>
<p>I find it amazing that the OP’s sister is being accused of “shallow stereotyping” in a forum where “fit” is so often proclaimed as more important than almost any other characteristic. In fact, her view of her “fit” with the ND student body seems quite realistic. That doesn’t mean that she–or they–are raving racists or religious bigots.</p>
<p>I’m the one who used the term ‘shallow stereotyping’, because of the comments about ND consisting of white students wearing certain brands of clothing and spending their time sunning, grilling and playing lawn games. I consider that shallow, and I consider it a stereotypical caricature, not a realistic description of the student body of ND.</p>
<p>AND, as I have already pointed out, I cannot be accused of being a hypocrite on the issue of “fit” because I think that notion is given way too much emphasis on this forum. I have argued that position on other threads and if I don’t decide to give up on this forum altogether after today, I will do so in the future.</p>
<p>Nobody used the term ‘raving racist’ except you. I do think much of the chatter on this thread contributes to racial isolationism. </p>
<p>The next time I see someone on this forum criticize universities with low Asian/black/Jewish enrollment for being too homogeneous, I will be linking them to this thread so they can read about why those schools stay ethnically homogeneous.</p>
<p>“Apparently, the people at Notre Dame were the stereotypical white people, wearing Hollister/Abercrombie, tanning on the grass, having BBQs, and playing frisbees. My sister HATES that - and she’s used to a lot of diversity because we live in LA, but the campus is pretty much all Caucasians. (She’s Asian.)”</p>
<p>This is what the OP wrote.
And it’s apparently OK, because white people are the majority and can be the objects of shallow stereotyping – in fact, they should WELCOME such shallow stereotyping as a penitential exercise.
But a white person engaging in shallow stereotyping of blacks all hanging out wearing “ghetto clothes” and listening to rap, or Asians all sticking together by country with their noses in books is condemned as a racist, and reminded that “diversity” means learning to live with people who don’t look like you, and isn’t that wonderful.</p>
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<p>My take on this was a little different … was this well written; not at all … but was the intent racial stereotyping … I seriously doubt it! When I read it I read a comment about fit. While I have never been to ND that description did not surprise me … if I did visit and give a one line description that would probably be close to it. Another description what would be just a much a generialization would be something like … the students were really diverse the kids seems sort of artsy and funky and there seemed to be a ton of activism on campus (my one-liner for Smith). Both descriptions are overly simplistic but I would bet that about 90 of 100 visitors would have very different reactions to Smith and ND … there is nothing wrong with that … and there is nothing wrong with someone favoring one environment over the other … they are both great schools and excellent choices for kids who want to attend them. For my kids I want them to pick an environment that feels comfortable to them and will help them grow.</p>
<p>She visited ND last week. Northern Indiana had a very, very long and bitter winter. Last week had the first <em>really</em> nice (over 70 and sunny) day in SIX months. Most everyone, white, black, purple, polka-dot, whatever, was outside. My first reaction was that maybe someone from CA didn’t understand that.</p>
<p>I went to Colgate in the 80’s, really not knowing better. There were less than 5 Asians in my class. At that time, part of our core was a Philosophy and Religion course. I also found that out when I came on campus. As a potential physics or math major, I was beside myself. Now 25+ years later, it is one course I remembered. It made a very big impact on me. </p>
<p>As a minority, growing up I was used to be uncomfortable (it’s the level that’s different). Colgate back then was very white and preppy. Most kids there were at a social economic level I was not accustom to. It wasn’t easy to fit in. But in trying to do so, I learned a lot about myself and how to navigate through unfamiliar (unfriendly) territory. </p>
<p>One very important thing I learn is not to jump into conclusion about people’s intention because of my own bias. At school, some of my friends would say things, at first may appear to be racist, but really they were just not exposed to other culture. </p>
<p>I am sure part of the reason I was offered a nice scholarship to Colgate back then was because of my race. But I think it was mutually beneficial for Colgate and myself. The education has served me well. I would always be grateful for it.</p>
<p>No, I wouldn’t send my kids to a hostile environment. But I don’t see anything wrong to be minority. As a woman, an Asian, working in finance, I am always a minority.</p>
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<p>Did I read this correctly? You have never been on the campus, yet you predict that the characterization in question is correct? </p>
<p>Having read CC for some time now, I have sworn not to repeat any conventional wisdom about universities unless I have personal experience that confirms the stereotype.</p>
<p>syrstress, that is an excellent point. Residents of northern Indiana can go weeks without decent sunshine. When it warms up, a lot of people turn into sun worshipers for a few days. I was in Sweden once in June. I couldn’t believe it when I came upon a nude beach near Stockholm. When you don’t see the sun for months, you soak up all you can in a hurry. I guess if the students at ND were taking their sun in the nude, we’d be seeing a different stereotype presented here.</p>
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That’s fine and I somewhat agree … but there is also data out there about schools. ND is high on Mini’s entitlement index (<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-life/11033-rich-kid-schools-4.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-life/11033-rich-kid-schools-4.html</a> … see posts #57 & #58) … and these schools <em>TEND</em> to be more white than typical, more upper middle class than typical, and more preppy than typical. So a description of ND that fits that profile is not surprising … that description was given by someone who was there … so, to me it was not surprising. FYI, ND came out #2 on the entitlement index … this student’s perception matched the data … I have not been there but have numerous data points that would certainly give me reason to think the description might be true.</p>
<p>Last spring we made the rounds of east coast urban schools. I had a similar reaction to 4 schools … the campus culture seems to be dominated by upper middle class suburban white kids … and on the entitlement index the schools were all in the top 6 of the research universities. There were two schools which seemed much more racially diverse and the students seemed much more varied and both were in the bottom 5 of the research universities entitlement index. Is it random all 6 experiences collerolate to the data? I really doubt it.</p>
<p>I am consistent on this board … I am a HUGE fan of both “fit” and of campus visits. To me schools have very different personalities and feels … and these personalities are not good or bad but they certainly are different … and visits are the best way to gage (guess?) this. Barring the ability to visit using available data is the best source for trying to gage how a student might fit in at a school.</p>
<p>Some people can afford the fit, some people can only follow the money. I think a ND education is better than a CC, even if the kid wants to transfer after a year. She may also be pleasantly surprised, like I did many years ago.</p>
<p>To answer westerndad’s post:</p>
<p>As a minority parent, I would discourage my kids from attending a college that feels hostile to minorities but I wouldn’t discourage based on numbers alone because low minority numbers can be attributed to a number of things. Though numbers are something I look at. Ds’s campus is very diverse – about equal numbers black, white and Hispanic – and I think he’d miss that.</p>
<p>“if this student were to end up with a law degree and were offered a position at a prestigious law firm that had few Asians, would you discourage her from taking that position for the same reason?”</p>
<p>I’m a career counselor for young lawyers. I’d tell the student to take this concern very seriously when choosing among firms. Unconscious bias can play a huge role in who succeeds at a prestigious law firm. If you don’t see people like you in the equity partner ranks, you should dig deeper before you commit.</p>
<p>FWIW: When I toured Georgetown (another catholic/jesuit school) I asked the tour guide in private whether my agnostic/atheist daughter would feel out of place. She assured me that there were lots of atheists/agnostics on campus, and that the campus truly valued diversity in all its forms. And in fact, looking around the campus there was plenty of diversity of all sorts. </p>
<p>She then went on to say something like “Now, Notre Dame, I would not recommend for such a person. She would not be comfortable there”.</p>
<p>I realize that the OP’s sister is not so concerned about the religion but it is partly the result of strong religious affiliation that the university has difficulty enlisting a diverse student body.</p>
<p>Here is what amazes me. I went to ND instead of Brown yrs ago becuz it was our “family” school and cost less…I disliked it going in as I wasnt athletic, disliked “jocks”, was very private about my faith, etc. Guess what? I worked my tail off as a frosh science major so I could transfer, but, found a great camaraderie in the chem dept, great roommates, solace in those moonlit visits to the Grotto, and fell in love with ND (even the snow!). Now I am an MD and happy that I juiced my so called lemons into lemonade…this sister can take her uniqueness and face ND with pride, determination, and learn a lot as she teaches others. Give it a try and remember, lots of wonderful kids envy her dilemma!!!</p>
<p>Perhaps determination, resilience, and a reasonably open mind can trump “fit.”</p>
<p>With regards to the theology requirement–I believe that Princeton has the same requirement? And, as a previous poster mentioned some posts ago, there are many classes that fulfill the theo requirement and many are not Catholic related. They are theology courses, period. She will also have to fulfill a year of philosophy requirement as well, will she have a problem with that? Our student has finished both requirements, but I can tell you that it was the philo requirement that was the most dreaded. And, our student is not Catholic!! </p>
<p>As to white, BBQ-eating students, I’d like to know where the BBQ is–we haven’t been able to find any BBQ there!</p>
<p>If you did, you would like to go, right?</p>
<p>“With regards to the theology requirement–I believe that Princeton has the same requirement?”</p>
<p>Nope.</p>
<p>[General</a> Education Requirements - Undergraduate Announcement - Princeton University](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/pr/catalog/ua/08/general/]General”>http://www.princeton.edu/pr/catalog/ua/08/general/)</p>