Introvert and URichmond don’t seem to go together. Country club and Southern (which my S loves) do. There is a golf course in the middle of campus. My sense is Hamilton will let her discover her interests (other than in the careers to which she has been exposed at home). Sounds like development economics, anthropology, sociology and comparative politics are areas of strong interest. Don’t sense she will find as many likeminded individuals at URichmond even if twice as large, but that is not firsthand. Money seems not be an issue for parents based on careers and discussion, unless you are going to make her take on debt if she goes to Hamilton. If you really want her to explore what she loves, and you can afford it, invest in her happiness in life. It will pay financial and health dividends for all.
Appreciate the detailed response. Clearly Hamilton is much more selective than URichmond - not sure that alone justifies (for me) paying a premium for tuition. Selectivity & prestige related to selectivity is somewhat self perpetuating.
Also, while overall salaries for Hamilton grads are higher than others in NESCAC, for Economics grads, Hamilton actually has a lower salary compared to the others. Not sure if this just represents % of Econ grads going into Wall St jobs ?
Princeton Review ranks Richmond really high on services provided by the college - #6 for Career Services, #6 for Internships, #13 for Study Abroad (vs #18 for Hamilton), #9 for classroom experience (vs #14 for Hamilton)
Great advice, input, discussion on this - would be great to hear from more folks with direct experience with either school
I would check the alumni source of Linkedin to see where grads are working in Economic Consulting (very specific industry and great for grad school placement). I know of several that do that in DC. Richmond places well in DC so check to see if they also place well in Economic Consulting. Of course, kids change frequently so that would be just one data point.
Not as familiar with Hamilton. Both have great reputations.
If your daughter would like to integrate internships with academics, then these Hamilton programs in D.C. and NYC seem ideal:
For perspectives that will help you interpret Hamilton’s architecture in a historical and cultural context, see What schools did you choose Hamilton over?
It’s very clear that both colleges are excellent. At this point, you’re grasping at straws to find meaningful differences that would justify paying a lot more money for Hamilton. There’s a great big difference staring you in the face: $80,000. These two colleges are both top tier in terms of prestige and outcomes, and people who matter (employers, grad school) will know this. This isn’t like a choice between Harvard and Podunk State U. It’s more like a choice between Duke and Vanderbilt. Neither is better than the other.
$80,000 is a year (or two) of college for another kid, if you have one. That’s major home repairs, amazing family vacations, new cars, or just a cushion for unexpected emergencies. Unless she strongly feels she will be miserable at Richmond, I think it’s time to play the parent card and pay a deposit there.
We had this dilemma with S18. He ended up turning down the presidential scholarship at Richmond, and although admitted to Hamilton, ended up choosing another NESCAC. Richmond was the only school he had applied to without visiting first and when we visited on admitted student day, he just couldn’t see himself there. At the time, looking at a scared, introverted kid who did not feel he fit in at Richmond, we chose to foot the full pay bill at another school. It is not an easy decision, but I would focus on fit over prestige. Hamilton and Richmond are very different schools, but if your student can see herself at Richmond, I would not hesitate to send her there.
I think you really need to decide what is most important to you and your D21. You mention the Econ programs and potential career paths, “fit,” and then the $80k difference. There is no need to start thinking about fit and Econ programs if you are not going to be able to get past the price difference. Are you going to feel fine if you visit Hamilton and your D falls in love and turns down the scholarship at Richmond? Is it something you will not second guess when paying the Hamilton tuition? If not, perhaps you should be upfront about that before even visiting.
I will add that my D20 is a first year at Hamilton and absolutely loves it. She applied ED1, was accepted, and hasn’t second guessed her choice yet. She plans to major in Econ with a double major in Creative Writing/Gov/Soc/Environmental Studies. The double changes regularly—she is the poster child for LAC and open curriculum! She considers herself a writer though, and that was a big draw. She is already in knots over upcoming registration for the fall because “there are so many courses that look fabulous!”
That said, as another poster mentioned, Hamilton’s student population is just under 2k. Your D needs to want the small LAC vibe. While still a small LAC, Richmond has double the students. That is no small difference. And, as everyone mentioned, the schools are VERY different. Given the size, you need to understand what you are getting at Hamilton and fully embrace it.
Have fun on your visit. My D tells me there are a lot of families doing self-guided tours these days.
It might be interesting to compare economics department course descriptions, especially for courses covering topics expected by graduate schools, such as with econometrics:
URichmond
Advanced Econometrics
Hamilton
Econometrics
I’m not sure this makes sense to people who aren’t economists though.
In my opinion, it depends on the disparity in the course descriptions. I’ve seen some wide disparities in descriptions across colleges in which the differences would seem apparent even to non-economists. I’m not suggesting that that’s fully the case here. It does appear, however, that, based on prerequisites, Hamilton expects its students to attain the above level in econometrics in one course, rather than in a two-course sequence, as at UR. In essence, Hamilton’s Econometrics course appears to cover more material than UR’s Advanced Econometrics course.
Admission yield came up on another thread. Hamilton’s yield is a lot higher than Richmond’s (a difference of over 60%). You may want to consider this if you value numerical factors in your decision.
I was thinking the same while reading the thread.
Equal cost or a minor difference in cost is one thing; $80K is something else entirely. I don’t think there’s any liberal arts college that’s worth $80K more than U Richmond, especially for someone strongly considering grad school. It’s an excellent school with a great quality of life and its fair share of serious, academically-oriented students.
Any decision?
Appreciate everyone’s input & advice on this thread. We finally visited Hamilton (& Colgate) last weekend. We used our own framework to compare the schools - outlining this below, because we found this to be useful. We compared schools across 3 categories
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Non-academic services - This generally covered services offered by college administrators, including dorms, food, study abroad programs & internships and career services. Generally an indication of how well the college is being run/ managed by administrators
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Academic Environment - This covered elements like class size, quality of faculty, research opportunities, curriculum/ choice of courses and also included academic strength of peers (mid 50% SAT range, % of from top 10% of high school class) and classroom environment
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Social fit - The most qualitative of the categories, this covered general feel of campus, interactions with other students, prevalence of Greek life/ partying, etc
It was really useful to visit both campuses and have some limited interactions with students - either on tour or in virtual hangouts. We eventually felt that
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URichmond leads on non-academic services - this is clearly an area of focus & investment for college administration. However Hamilton does most of this really well, it’s just not as well promoted as it is at URichmond - for example Hamilton offers students $4K in funding for student research but this isn’t called out unless you ask about it. URichmond markets this as the “Richmond Guarantee” (which to be fair also applies to unpaid internships)
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Hamilton clearly had a stronger academic environment, especially for Economics/ Math/CS - @merc81 pointed out Hamilton’s selectivity and the Hamilton Econ faculty is both really strong and D21 found more professors with research interests paralleling her own curiosity on economic topics. In general, Hamilton aligned with a more “intellectually curious” classroom environment vs a more “pre-professional” environment at URichmond (where the Econ department is part of the school of business).
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Last but not least Hamilton was a clear winner in terms of social fit - the students & other we met there impressed D21 by being down to earth, unpretentious and full of genuine warmth. Everyone we met at URichmond was great & very nice, but something just clicked in the interactions with Hamilton students - this was clearly D21’s crowd. We also loved the Hamilton campus, argued over the charms of the dark vs light side and eventually realized that for D21 the rural seclusion, Root Glen trails, snowy weather and much smaller size were all positives, not drawbacks (not that us parents agree with all of this !!)
Eventually, the decision of whether these positives are “worth it” is a very personal choice, but we’re fortunate to be able to afford the difference and so Hamilton College it is !!
@ProfSD thanks for your thoughts on this, sounds like my D21 & your D20 might share a lot of interests in common - they’ll probably cross paths at Hamilton
You wrote a beautiful review of both colleges, with a grasp, beyond programs, of their deeper cultures. In your daughter’s case, she seems ready to appreciate the intellectual lineage of Hamilton . . . Pound, Woollcott, Skinner . . . and grow into a scholar in her own right. If your family likes film, this one, which features “Harrisonville College,” may be one with which to celebrate her decision: https://www.tcm.com/video/186675/sterile-cuckoo-the-original-trailer. The best of luck to her!
Congratulations!
And thank you for writing such thoughtful reviews that’ll be useful to current and future juniors&seniors.
That is a great framework to gauge peer schools. Hope others find it useful. Really covers many of the areas of interest. We kind of got there a few yrs back but this would have been a great tool to take a closer look at top choices.
I suggest you trademark it for the CC crowd:)