Help with my Brown Decision!

<p>Kristina, for a fellow dimensions/ADOCH attendee your surprisingly unfamiliar with Dartmouth's D Plan vs. Brown's more standard semester scheduling! No offense intended, I promise, Dartmouth just tooted their own horn so much I'm surpised lol. Dartmouth kids have 3 terms per year, at 3 classes per term (avg.) = 9 classes per year - comparable or the same to the 4, maybe 5 Brown students will take each semester. Dartmouth's classes probably arent more in depth or anything than Brown classes, rather just covering the same amount of material in 10 weeks vs. 15. Each class would seem more intense, but you take fewer per term to make up for it. Every person I asked at Dartmouth said taking 4 per term is a significant burden for most, and would be difficult to maintain with a life and EC's. I was told lots take 2 their sophomore summer. No change in difficulty or depth, just the speed/timing of the schedule.</p>

<p>OK, I was getting really confused. No idea why I was thinking Brown was on quarters. I was thinking of Northwestern or something. It all makes sense now :)</p>

<p>And I didn't think the Mercedes thing was that true, but I had to ask.</p>

<p>my brother claims classes at dartmouth feel a bit rushed, even taking only three, because the quarters are so short. when we studies abroad on a semester system he said he was able to study in much more depth.</p>

<p>Kristina, this year Dartmouth actually was slightly more selective than Brown (13.2% vs 13.4%). There is no selectivity difference at all. And they are pretty much exactly the same when it comes to placement into graduate school and med school. this is totally a "fit" decision, not a "which is better" decision.</p>

<p>I agree with you. But my mother unfortunately is convinced that Brown is a much stronger school :(</p>

<p>I agree that Dartmouth and Brown are equally strong on average--though Slipper, me, and some others often argue about the details</p>

<p>In some circles, Brown continues to enjoy more layman's prestige than Dartmouth because it is considered to be harder to get in to. On the 2008 "toughest to get into" list, Brown is ranked 6th and Dartmouth is ranked 15th
The</a> Toughest to Get Into: The New 2008 "Best 366 Colleges" Rankings on The Princeton Review</p>

<p>While dartmouth had a tenth of a percentage point lower admit rate this year, it has had a 2-5 percentage point higher admit rate for the last decade. There is also this perception that to get into Brown you need some kind of special quirkiness--more than just good grades, scores, etc. There's also the fact that a narrow majority of those admitted to both schools, select Brown</p>

<p>Actually Brown has been about 2 points lower almost every recent year with Dartmouth narrowing the gap (13.7 vs. 15.27 in 2007, 14.3 vs. 15.8 in 2006) and surpassing it this year. Its SAT scores are about 40 points higher. Kristina, what makes your mom think that Brown is more selective or better? </p>

<p>In terms of public perception, I'd argue that they are exactly the same depending on whom your talking to. For example, Dartmouth has been rated higher in USNEWS since the early 90's and that definitely has an impact on perception as well. Brown probably has more prestige in California, Dartmouth in new england. Its just a bad reason to choose between these two.</p>

<p>But the truth is choose for fit. Brown or Dartmouth people will become your best friends and you'll jump at the opportunity to read your choice's alumni magazine when you graduate. You'll return for homecomings, spring weekends, or green keys. You'll be living arguably the most formative years of your life in one of these places. You'll be jumping off a rope swing after a bbq during sophomore summer at Dartmouth or chilling in a coffee shop on Thayer street at Brown. You kids will probably want to attend your school. </p>

<p>This is what matters. Would you choose between a porsche and a mercedes because of prestige? No, you choose the one you want. Same goes here. </p>

<p>Very few people have the luxury to choose between two equally awesome schools based on nothing but the one their heart wants more. Consider yourself really lucky.</p>

<p>This is a very helpful thread. Thanks again to dcircle and slipper and everyone else for taking the time to provide so much helpful information and perspective. Also thanks to those of you who are asking all of the good questions! My son is in the same boat as you are -- B vs. D (vs. maybe Williams, Carleton ... ). He just spent two days at B, is now at D, and will be heading to W tomorrow. I will be eager to hear his thoughts and will encourage him to at least read this thread, if not post his own impressions. I do know that he couldn't get over the fact that in the short span of five days, B had the following speakers on campus: Martin Scorcese, Tom Brokaw (whom he got to hear), Thomas Friedman and the President of Bolivia, Evo Morales. He was also awed by the chemistry labs and thought Thayer Street was pretty cool and fun. He met a lot of really nice kids (not a one seemed particularly rolling in dough) and found College Hill and Providence itself (at least just to the other side of the river, where I stayed) to be very manageable, even delightful. Providence is clearly a very different place than it was in the early 70's, when I was at H.</p>

<p>Speaking of which, I spent yesterday afternoon in Cambridge and decided to sit in on an information session, since I do volunteer admissions interviewing out here in Wisconsin. One thing I found myself really liking about Harvard is the residential system, the houses. Now that house assignment is random, it is no longer the case that each house has it's own strong personality (e.g., Adams used to be the artsy-fartsy pretentious house, Kirkland was the total jock house, etc.). But what's been preserved is the incredible sense of community. Other than D's frats, are there any housing options at D or B that do that for students?</p>

<p>BTW, in our experience, B and W both seem willing to meet D's more generous fin aid offer. We're still sort of in negotiation (kind of waiting to see which school our son truly prefers), but it's been pretty painless.</p>

<p>Brown has a Tech House (near a frat), a house (an actual house) that's supposed be for cooking, a couple of co-op houses where the hippies live, a literary frat, a french-spanish house, some sort of an international type house, an Africanish dorm, that's all I can think of.</p>

<p>But freshman don't get to pick unless they have a special request for gender or non-substance housing.</p>

<p>slipper, I got deferred ED at Brown and then accepted RD, whereas I got a likely letter from Dartmouth... maybe that's why she's under the impression of Brown being much more selective. I do feel incredibly lucky to have gotten into both. I live in California, and while a lot of people don't have a whole lot of familiarity with Dartmouth and Brown, they are mostly perceiving Brown as the better school, like you said is typical of people in CA.</p>

<p>the perception that brown has an edge isn't limited to california. it's also anecdotally true of manhattan, boston, d.c. (of the places i've lived)</p>

<p>moreover, the P.R. survey that ranks brown as the 6th toughest to get into and dartmouth 15th, is based on a nationwide survey of high school student opinions
The</a> Toughest to Get Into: The New 2008 "Best 366 Colleges" Rankings on The Princeton Review</p>

<p>lastly, it's interesting that in a survey of students on CC, brown is ranked first in the number of times it was listed as the "favorite ivy" and dartmouth is ranked last.
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/427356-your-favorite-ivy-18.html?highlight=brown%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/427356-your-favorite-ivy-18.html?highlight=brown&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>there is undeniably a general perception that brown is the better place to be</p>

<p>I totally thought that too, until I visited Dartmouth. Gahh, I'm so torn :/</p>

<p>I'd argue otherwise. I've lived in Boston, DC, New York, and Chicago and I'd argue the opposite. Dartmouth is looked at more "solid" than Brown which gets an unfair bad wrap for its open curriculum. </p>

<p>As for your CC observation, I can throw Brown under the bus for every post you try to throw Dartmouth there. For example:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/362458-college-confidential-forum-ranking-american-undergraduate-schools-8.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/362458-college-confidential-forum-ranking-american-undergraduate-schools-8.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>And don't forget that Dartmouth places higher on every graduate placement list, does better with recruiters, etc. </p>

<p>Once again, I love both these schools. But convincing someone to pick Brown because of a non-existent difference in "perception" is wrong. Telling them to pick Brown because they love it is another thing.</p>

<p>"I've lived in Boston, DC, New York, and Chicago and I'd argue the opposite. Dartmouth is looked at more "solid" than Brown which gets an unfair bad wrap for its open curriculum."</p>

<p>then..</p>

<p>"convincing someone to pick Brown because of a non-existent difference in 'perception' is wrong."</p>

<p>What I'm saying is that for every opinion on which is "better" there's another one that is the opposite, and therefor in the end this shouldn't be a determining factor at all. The last statement is the main point.</p>

<p>i never said to pick brown because of a perception, i'm merely pointing out what the fairly irrefutable perception is.</p>

<p>your link is unconvincing slipper, so i'll let it speak for itself.</p>

<p>moreover, your claims that dartmouth does better with recruiters or "every" grad placement list is wholly unsubstantiated. brown does better with some recruiters, dartmouth does better with others. same with grad schools--for every metric in the WSJ ranking there is a counter-metric. undisputably, however, brown does overwhelming better in placement into presitgious fellowships like the rhodes scholarship.</p>

<p>by the way, i think the B vs D argument is a fun rivalry, but do not at all endorse choosing a school based on any of this. to kristina, as agonizing as your choice is, it will soon be made and you can't possibly go wrong!</p>

<p>I'm arguing against your irrefutable perception.</p>

<p>Also none of my statements on recruiting/ grad placement are unsubstantiated. Dartmouth and Brown are both northeast schools competing for the same grad schools. The WSJ main complaint, regional bias, doesn't apply. Also, UVA law, Wharton, Columbia Business, Yale law, and others publish lists. Per capita, Dartmouth does better. As for recruiting, here's finance:</p>

<p>Private</a> Equity Firms & Universities: What’s the Relationship? | BankersBall</p>

<p>2007</a> list of BB Summer Associate class by colleges | WallStreetOasis.com</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/internships-careers-employment/461571-top-5-undergraduate-schools-ibanking.html?highlight=Top+5%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/internships-careers-employment/461571-top-5-undergraduate-schools-ibanking.html?highlight=Top+5&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>There's a very real chance Brown kids are more likely to apply for fellowships, while Dartmouth kids are looking to go to grad school or get a job.</p>

<p>Anyway I sort of feel Clinton/ Obama about this. I love both places. As I thin k dcircle and I agree, choose for fit.</p>

<p>first of all, slipper you need to go to sleep. (i guess i do too...)</p>

<p>secondly, the links you list are subject to the same selction bias you cite for fellowships (since they are based on aggregate representation). in other words, perhaps dartmouth kids are more likely to apply for private equity jobs, in which case...</p>

<p>-Dartmouth students are more likely to seek soul-less banking jobs
-Brown students are more likely to seek save-the-world fellowships</p>

<p>sounds about right to me :)</p>

<p>One last jab- </p>

<p>Dartmouth</a> News - Dartmouth named number one in Peace Corps participation in the small schools category - 01/30/06</p>

<p>Dartmouth kids want to save the world too.</p>

<p>^^^you guys are funny. </p>

<p>Kristina, follow your heart! </p>

<p>That's what any self-respecting Bruno would say. ;)</p>