<p>I didn't mean prestige in a bad way, for lack of a better word I used it to mean a college with a high entry bar. I think those schools want to see the child becoming progressively more academic. Frankly, they seem to expect the kid will do it all but the focus needs to be academic unless the EC/Talent is remarkable.</p>
<p>You were looking for safeties - has she looked into UC Irvine? They are strong in both music and languages. They also have an interdisciplinary
major in humanities and the arts. Check out their website.</p>
<p>I wouldn't worry about the lack of undergrad prestige hurting her grad chances - any of the UCs would be strong enough to launch her into a good grad program.</p>
<p>Mental and physical health are good things! ;)</p>
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<blockquote> <p>A year ago, when I first suggested to her to take a look at UCSC as a safety, she gave me a weird look, like "can you imagine me falling THAT low?" (personally, I've heard UCSC is a great school, but that what Her Ambiciousness felt about it ... then ).<<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>I'm with the others about letting her follow her interests, BUT one of the realities of doing what you want to is that she has to live with the consequences - that is one of the lessons you learn when making your own decisions.</p>
<p>I didn't quite follow the explanation about community college, could she take a science class at a community college? Or an online science class? At our local commuter university, you can take Anatomy and Physiology as an online class - could she do that to bolster her application?</p>
<p>I agree I don't think it will matter for grad school - what matters is her undergrad performance.</p>
<p>My first choice for her would be AP Bio or AP Chem, in place of AP Stats, don't worry about anything else - my concern is that not having "good AP science teachers" or not "liking the AP science teachers", will not play well, and come across as an excuse. ENg, government and science - that will be a lighter academic load than many kids she will compete with, but it solid with her past classes, and mental health is worth it.
Either waym she should make the decision.</p>
<p>Let her follow her own bliss. </p>
<p>If what she really likes to do is reflected in her course selection, she might want to think hard about what kind of college she would like to attend. I'm guessing that she'd be happier at a college where the work load was such that she could continue to follow her passions while not having to carry a very difficult course load.</p>
<p>Another thing to consider is that since it seems that her passion is music, would she be happiest at a college where she could major in that or pursue it intensely through ECs?</p>
<p>The course load would likely hurt her at places like Ivies, which get lots of applications from high scoring students who avidly pursue ECs --including theater -- while carrying difficult courseloads. Such colleges also get applications from high scoring students with music and theater backgrounds who have achieved at the regional and national level with their ECs.</p>
<p>However, Ivies and similar schools may not the kind of college that she would be happiest in. Just because she has high scores and is clearly very bright doesn't mean that the type of college where she'd be happiest would be an Ivy.</p>
<p>Use the search function to find FrecklyBecky's experiences at Michigan, where FB got a lead role in a musical fall of freshman year. Perhaps that's the kind of college where the student you describe would be happiest.</p>
<p>If linguistics is a passion, can she add another language? Does she also plan to apply to music programs? If so she could add something substantial outside of school for that.</p>
<p>If she wants to focus on the linguistics she needs to take advanced level lang even outside of school if she rea wants ivy.</p>
<p>I don't pretend to have any kind of comprehensive data base, but the kids I've known whose music has clearly carried them into HYPS-type colleges have either been (a) THAT good (i.e., turning down top conservatories, having subsequent professional careers as performers or composers), or (b) lucky, in the sense that they were pretty good at an odd instrument (like harp) that filled a need that year. Of course, lots of kids with top academic qualifications are also skilled musicians, and I think the music functions much the way sports does for non-recruited athletes: it's a great indication of character and discipline, and a huge plus in the application, but not sufficient in and of itself to carry the day or to overcome some problem.</p>
<p>The OP's daughter is clearly a very strong student. I reiterate that I don't think she has a big problem, only that she may want to so something more to make her senior courseload look a little more academic, so it doesn't look like she's running off with the circus.</p>
<p>As for Northstarmom's comments: Yes, she may actually be happier somewhere other than an Ivy. But I have known lots of kids at Ivies who have pursued music ECs very passionately and with great satisfaction . . . and I'll bet she has, too. Most of them have very, very strong cultures of dedicated, talented amateur musicians.</p>
<p>"As for Northstarmom's comments: Yes, she may actually be happier somewhere other than an Ivy. But I have known lots of kids at Ivies who have pursued music ECs very passionately and with great satisfaction . . . and I'll bet she has, too. Most of them have very, very strong cultures of dedicated, talented amateur musicians."</p>
<p>Yes, that is true. Indeed, music is the most popular EC of any Harvard student -- not because admissions looks to admit students with musical ECs, but because many of the strongest H applicants happen to be musicians (typically while also being athletes, competitive math stars, student government officers, doing lots of community service while also pursuing music and carrying very demanding courseloads).</p>
<p>I can not think of anyone from my area who has been a H admit in the last few years who hasn't been pursuing some kind of EC related to music. However, all also were doing other things ranging from being an Eagle Scout/computer whiz (Having professional level employment in that field) to being a national officer in National Honor Society plus winning statewide math competition awards and citywide art awards. </p>
<p>All were also carrying very demanding senior year courseloads.</p>
<p>Consequently, I think that a student with sky high stats who is doing lots of music-oriented things on a local level while taking a relatively light courseload (by Ivy applicant standards) would seem weak in the pool, which has a lot of people with sky high stats who are taking demanding courseloads while pursuing strong ECs, including music-oriented ones. Now, if she were taking a relatively light courseload while acting in a Hollywood film or performing on Broadway, that would be a different matter.</p>
<p>It's because she apparently feels the need to take a relatively light (by Ivy standards) courseload while pursuing her ECs that I'm thinking that she may be happier at a less demanding college where she can passionately pursue ECs while not having to work as hard in class as she might at a place like an Ivy.</p>
<p>I don't blame her at all for not wanting to juggle an intense courseload with lots of music-related, time intensive ECs. It's just that the successful Ivy applicants whom I've known have been able to juggle things like that and appear to have enjoyed doing so.</p>
<p>To me, a senior year schedule that includes only two academic courses seems startlingly light.</p>
<p>Doesn't her school have seven periods per day? If it does, then she has two academic courses, three music performance courses, and two study halls, right? </p>
<p>I don't think that will impress colleges. </p>
<p>I can understand her desire to participate in all three music performance groups her senior year, but might it also be possible for her to fit two additional academic courses into her schedule? They need not be the most demanding courses offered by the school. Honors Anything would do. Or the slower APs. AP Stats is actually a good choice, in my opinion, because it's a one-semester college course usually taught over a full year in high school. Does her school offer AP Psychology? That's also one of the slower APs, and a lot of kids love it. </p>
<p>Taking the first year of a new foreign language would also add an academic course to her schedule and would probably be easy for someone with as much experience in language as she has.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>It's because she apparently feels the need to take a relatively light (by Ivy standards) courseload while pursuing her ECs that I'm thinking that she may be happier at a less demanding college where she can passionately pursue ECs while not having to work as hard in class as she might at a place like an Ivy.<<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>It could be that OP's daughter just got completely burned out after her junior year (if my D were only getting 2-3 hours of sleep of night every night, I think she would have burned out DURING junior year!). She could be the kind of student who would thrive in an Ivy atmosphere--once she takes a year to decompress from her nightmarish junior year. </p>
<p>The analogy that comes to mind is of a long distance runner who ran at too fast a pace in the middle of the race and now only has strength to limp into the finish. This runner could still be a great long distance runner, once she recovers from this race and gets the pacing down for the next race.</p>
<p>For example, if the student had left BC Calculus for the senior year instead of taking it in the junior year--we wouldn't have any concerns with her academically-lite load.</p>
<p>Too late for OP's D, but a cautionary tale for anyone with a kid who wants to do it all.</p>
<p>"To me, a senior year schedule that includes only two academic courses seems startlingly light.
I don't think that will impress colleges. "</p>
<p>I have to agree with the statements above. If she is interested in applying to any PRIVATE colleges, especially those with students of her caliber, her senior classload is WAY to light in comparison to the thousands of other seniors who continue to challenge themselves with a more rigorous classload, especially since she is competing with so many other students who were born in the middle of the baby-boomlet. If she will be happy to be at a UC, then with her grades and scores, she will most probably be accepted at more than one. But in order for her to be competative for openings at private colleges, she needs to add a science and a language class- either english or foreign, added to her schedule.</p>
<p>menloparkmom, why do you say that she specifically needs to add a science and a language?</p>
<p>I most definitely agree with you that she should have at least four academic courses, but I didn't know that there was a reason for choosing those particular subjects. </p>
<p>At some high schools, many of the most appealing academic electives for seniors are in the social studies department. Many of the kids I know flocked to classes in subjects like law, psychology, economics, and ancient history in their senior year, often including two or three social studies classes in their schedules (and omitting one or two of the other academic fields in order to do so). My own daughter took three social studies courses (one IB, one AP, one regular) and no math or foreign language her senior year, and colleges didn't seem to mind. Do you think that students who do this sort of thing are putting themselves at a disadvantage?</p>
<p>Take a look at this thread. I am not arguing the best way for this girl to get into HYPS etc. I am looking at how to best set her to be happy and successful should she be accepted. I believe when we don't listen to kids telling us they are burnt out it's a bad idea. </p>
<p>Now this thread is in no way an indictment of the parents whose kids had trouble in school. Obviously there are many reasons this can happen. But let's face it, sending the girl off to school when she is telling the parent it's all been a bit too much is asking for trouble. IMHO.</p>
<p>She took BC Calculus junior year. Most kids who do that and love it are dying to take Multiv. at the local cc. What she loves are music and languages. </p>
<p>Here's one more thought. At my kids' school you can do an independent study for credit. Maybe one of the chorus/performance classes could be augmented with a Music Theory project.</p>
<p>But don't burn her out. Not worth it.</p>
<p>If she is interested in applying to any PRIVATE colleges, especially those with students of her caliber, her senior classload is WAY to light in comparison to the thousands of other seniors who continue to challenge themselves with a more rigorous classload..."</p>
<p>Just as there are plenty of public colleges that would accept a student like her, there also are plenty of private ones. The colleges that her planned light courseload will hurt her at are the best private colleges in the country, places like HPYS, Amherst, Smith, etc.</p>
<p>Her high scores and good grades, however, will get her into most of the colleges in the country. If she aspires to the very top colleges, however, her light senior year course load will be the kiss of death since she'd be carrying such a schedule to do regular high school musical ECs, not to make a Hollywood movie.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>I believe when we don't listen to kids telling us they are burnt out it's a bad idea. <<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>Amen, Alumother!</p>
<p>As far as private colleges, I was refering to Myau's earlier posts on other threads where she was detailing her daughters interests and accomplishments, and asking for input regarding her daughter's chances at "top" colleges. For instance, Myau had mentioned earlier that U of Chicago was a college her daughter was interested in. Obviously she will be accepted at many 2nd tier colleges, but remembering how very smart and talented her daughter is, I'm concerned with the "fit" of her daughter in a second tier school.</p>
<p>remember the coarse load is based on school offerings..... not all schools offer all the APs so not everyone can go in w/ 11 or 12.... also class scheduling and having enough ppl to make the class... is a problem in some schools (like mine.... i couldn't even take 4 APs do to bad schedules and low registration turnout)</p>
<p>that is not the case with myau's daughters school.</p>
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also class scheduling and having enough ppl to make the class... is a problem in some schools
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<p>This is one reason why I question the idea that the OP's daughter needs add a specific type of academic courses to her schedule.</p>
<p>She wants to take three musical performance courses, each of which probably has only one section, thereby heavily restricting her schedule. If she's looking for academic electives, she may have to settle for whatever is available during the periods when her music courses don't meet.</p>
<p>"She took bio (no honors in her school), honors physics and honors chem. Decided not to take any AP sciences because of lack of interest in them as well as lack of really good science teachers at her school. There are no other history classes in her school - she had taken everything avaliable."</p>
<p>sounds pretty defficient to me. also the mother states that kids aren't encouraged to take more than 2 AP a year..... sometimes if not enough register classes don't make....</p>
<p>where do u see it not the case menloparkmom?
and even if it weren;t it is the case for many others ---i'm reffering to northstarmom's comment"</p>
<p>thankyou..... i agree marian.. that is what i was trying to get at w/ the scheduling thing. until menloparkmom discredited me</p>