High-achieving student with "lite" senior year courseload - chances?

Parent Cafe
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<p>"She wants to take three musical performance courses, each of which probably has only one section, thereby heavily restricting her schedule. If she's looking for academic electives, she may have to settle for whatever is available during the periods when her music courses don't meet."</p>

<p>I am aware of the potential scheduling problems, and why she wants to select the courses she's considering.</p>

<p>Still, when it comes to Ivies and similar colleges, she'll be competiing with people who had very strong senior year schedules and strong ECs and scores. It also will be clear to the colleges that she applied to that she passed on a more rigorous schedule at her high school in order to pursue her interests in music. </p>

<p>Her having a light schedule in order to participate in h.s. performing groups won't make her competitive with students who may have been homeschooled or had a relatively light schedule because they are professional entertainers.</p>

<p>The very top colleges want students who are superstars in their ECs and have the ability to handle the college's coursework and they want talented, smart students who have very strong interests in both academics and ECs. It is doubtful that the student in question falls into the first category. Her carrying a light academic course schedule will cause her to be overshadowed by students in the second category who have strong, musical ECs plus rigorous senior year courseloads.</p>

<p>Depending, too, on how her school calculates class rank, she also may fall in class rank. This can happen if AP classes get more weight than do other courses.</p>

<p>From what I've seen of H, it does not have a shortage of applicants with a background in music or theater, so I don't think her loading up on those subjects will help her in admissions to schools like H.</p>

<p>If, however, she doesn't want to go to schools like HPYS, she probably would be an exceptionally strong candidate for excellent merit aid and other perks at some top tier colleges that would be thrilled to have a high scoring, talented student like her.</p>

<p>Who knows? Maybe she could be CC's next FrecklyBecky, who after being turned down by places like H and Y went to Michigan and during fall of her freshman year starred in a musical.</p>

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<p>The post of Kristin 5792 seems to call some of the assumptions of this thread into question. This girl's stats and course load would be competitive for a senior; I don't think most colleges would penalize her for having completed this as a junior.</p>

<p>At S's school a girl is going to Princeton after a year in Venezuela where she t5ook no courses. Perhaps the problem is that there seems to be no rationale for so many music performance courses unles the student wants to pursue This on a professional level.</p>

<p>The poster who suggested AP music theory had a good idea. Another idea would be to find a science teacher who would support independent study in "the physics of music." This is a fascinating topic; building musical instruments and explaining the physics of them is a Science Olympiad event. My son designed and built an instrument that resembled a balalaika. Another idea would be to volunteer and create a MT troop for young children. The most elite schools do not llok for cookie cutter adherence to a menu; I know this from my son. (Accepted U of C, Brown, Williams; did not apply to HYPS.)
If the student appears to bre making life progress and can demonstrate this I think she will be okay.</p>

<p>I agree with posters who say that it is not worth burning out. And there are wonderful and very in tellectual schools like Bard and Vassar who would be thrilled to have her I think. She has to find a quirky hook and make her case and follow her bliss. (My son used Joseph Campbell in essay.)</p>

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<p>The girl had "health issues".</p>

<p>Sit down with her. See if there is any way she would take either, but not both, a science or language class to substitute for one of the music classes. But look her in the eye. If this is just standard teenage "what can I get away with" that is one thing. If this is real burn-out by an over-achiever who pushed too hard, that is another thing with serious consequences.</p>

<p>Getting into an Ivy or near-Ivy just isn't the most important thing in life. It isn't. Late bloomers know that innately. Early bloomers sometimes become etiolated. I love that word. Like a plant that doesn't get enough light and it becomes so pale that it can't really thrive.</p>

<p>Ack. I'm passionate about this. I could be completely wrong.</p>

<p>Edit: mythmom - Physics of Music is a great idea. My D actually had a teacher in 8th grade who was at the school before going off to grad school at UMich. He taught a bunch of kids Physics of Music. To this day it remains one of the classes that D liked best.</p>

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<p>"I didn't quite follow the explanation about community college, could she take a science class at a community college? Or an online science class? At our local commuter university, you can take Anatomy and Physiology as an online class - could she do that to bolster her application?"</p>

<p>She doesn't want to take any science classes except maybe at a good university (with good profs so there would be a chance for her to finally like it ... I doubt that c/college classes would be much of help in THAT), as some sort of "general" or "distribution" requirement.</p>

<p>She describes her feelings about sciences like "I'm excited to learn how the world works ... in general," - and therefore, she has been a strong and involved student in her non-AP, honors (whenever possible) science classes so far, - "but not in so many details" ;) (as to kill herself over AP science courses). </p>

<p>She is also pretty much "anti-lab" person (used to actually love science - read a lot of children's popular scientific books in elementary school - up until heavily-lab-oriented school science classes started where she would spill and drop everything, couldn't get her experiments start working etc. Unfortunately, it's hereditary trait, so I kinda feel for her. ;)</p>

<p>"My first choice for her would be AP Bio or AP Chem"</p>

<ul>
<li>both are known as "killer" classes at her school - up to the point that I don't have a heart to push her toward them, knowing it's not her "cup of tea".</li>
</ul>

<p>"However, Ivies and similar schools may not the kind of college that she would be happiest in. Just because she has high scores and is clearly very bright doesn't mean that the type of college where she'd be happiest would be an Ivy."</p>

<p>Could you suggest a real "fit" for such a student?</p>

<p>"If she will be happy to be at a UC"</p>

<p>Can't say that for sure. As I've heard, succeeding there takes some sort of assertiveness and other survival skills which she lacks. On the other hand, money-wise, it might become the most (if not only) feasible option for us. Anyway, among UCs, UCB and UCLA are the most suitable for a strong humanities-oriented student and the competition there is pretty tough, too. </p>

<p>"has she looked into UC Irvine?"</p>

<p>From what she heard about it from people who went there, she decided she wouldn't like the social environment there (on the other hand, she wouldn't like UCSB, either ;)) so she is not even planning to visit it. :( </p>

<p>"Depending, too, on how her school calculates class rank, she also may fall in class rank."</p>

<p>Her school doesn't rank.</p>

<p>"The poster who suggested AP music theory had a good idea"</p>

<p>She had already taken it - in 10th grade. :)</p>

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<p>Are LACs an option? Especially if she is not aggressive and "lacks life skills" for a large state uni.</p>

<p>The music theory thing I suggested was independent study. Also, did she take AP Bio? For non-science kids, it's pretty interesting inasmuch as it gets close to social sciences...</p>

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<p>ok, I've been watching this thread for a while and keeping quiet (how unlike me!). D had similar situation -- no sleep through junior year, no fun in her life, top stats. She asked a couple of admins at good LACs how they would perceive her app if she pursued her music passion (2 and sometimes 3 class periods every day required for her particular passion, but NOT a professional goal) and therefore carried a light academic load. They said go for your passion. She did. She had a good senior year and got into an excellent LAC, where she continues to enjoy life. Good choice!</p>

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<p>"She asked a couple of admins at good LACs "</p>

<p>I'm actually going to suggest it to my D to e-mail about 5 of her top-choice colleges' adcoms with the questions about her chances with different variations of her planned courseload (given her other achievements).
I wonder if UC's or Ivy-likes' adcoms would answer us such questions honestly and realistically. ;)</p>

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<p>But myau, how does your D feel about LACs? Carleton? Swarthmore? Williams? Pomona?</p>

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<p>My son wanted an academically rigorous school with small classes and great profs who would know his name. He also wanted to avoid a preppy, sportsy fratty campus. I'll pm you his list if you want it, but he chose Grinnell out of 10 great options and I feel confident he'll be academically and socially happy there. Help her look outside the box.</p>

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<p>"But myau, how does your D feel about LACs? Carleton? Swarthmore? Williams? Pomona?"</p>

<p>She is going to visit and explore Pomona, because it's in California (so, I strongly encourage her to look at it;)) and a part of the consortium with a bunch of opportunities. She feels uncomfortable, however, with the idea of going to some remote and small-ish place, possibly, in the middle of nowhere with limited choice of classes and people; with her uncertain career plans and "average" social skills, she thinks that big enough school, with the vast array of options to explore and the diverse student body would suit her better.</p>

<p>On the other hand, she might feel lost at TOO big school, so Pomona (or some kind of "small college within a big one" program) would actually be an optimal choice for her.</p>

<p>But we can't NOT to consider UC's as financial safeties.</p>

<p>BTW, as I remember reading Pomona's admissions web-page, they are very particular about what they want to see in terms of h/s preparation. Looks like with the lightened courseload my D wouldn't stand a chance there. :(</p>

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<p>"I'll pm you his list if you want it"</p>

<p>Yes, I do. :) Thanks.</p>

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<p>"I wonder if UC's or Ivy-likes' adcoms would answer us such questions honestly and realistically. "</p>

<p>If you expect that they'd say something like, "Your chances are 80% with the first possible courseload that you sent, and 20% with the second," I would bet money they won't say that.</p>

<p>If, however, you're hoping to know whether her chances would be stronger, weaker or the same depending on what options she pursues, your expectations probably will be met.</p>

<p>I anticipate that they'll say something like, "We prefer that students take the most rigorous courseload that's available in their high school. We do make some exceptions, however, for excellent applicants who have good reasons for making other selections." If they give you that kind of answer, I suggest that you ask for a specific example of such a student whom they have accepted.</p>

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<p>"If, however, you're hoping to know whether her chances would be stronger, weaker or the same depending on what options she pursues, your expectations probably will be met."</p>

<p>Yes, that's about it.</p>

<p>"We prefer that students take the most rigorous courseload that's available in their high school. We do make some exceptions, however, for excellent applicants who have good reasons for making other selections." If they give you that kind of answer, I suggest that you ask for a specific example of such a student whom they have accepted."</p>

<p>Would they answer questions like that? ;)</p>

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<p>They might give such an answer without giving the student's name or giving enough info to identify the student.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
BTW, as I remember reading Pomona's admissions web-page, they are very particular about what they want to see in terms of h/s preparation. Looks like with the lightened courseload my D wouldn't stand a chance there.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Not sure about that. They love music students. And language students.She already has taken some very rigorous courses. I would suggest she schedule an interview and ask some very good questions. Have her use it to determine fit, but don't plan her course shedule around what they think she should take. Did you know that Pomona has an entire dorm ( a great one) for serious language students?</p>

<p>While you are in Claremont, take a serious look at Scripps. She may not ordinarily choose a women's college, but because it is in the consortium, it's not isolated from men in the least. They love students in the arts. It might be a very good fit for your daughter, and she'd have the option of taking courses at any of the other Claremonts. They also offer merit aid - something Pomona doesn't do.</p>

<p>And the Scripps campus is so beautiful!</p>

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<p>"She may not ordinarily choose a women's college, but because it is in the consortium, it's not isolated from men in the least. They love students in the arts. It might be a very good fit for your daughter, and she'd have the option of taking courses at any of the other Claremonts"</p>

<p>From what's written on their web-site, those options are pretty much limited ... :(</p>

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<p>What options do you mean? The courses are definitely not limited. And many men take courses at Scripps. They share sports teams, many activities and clubs, as well as having the opportunity to take courses at any of the other colleges. It's not hard to do at all- spots are actually held open for other students in each of the colleges.</p>

<p>You live in California, so I'd encourage you to visit and ask a lot of questions. Look at the course catalogs at the schools, and the combined catalog that lists all the courses of all five campuses. You'd be amazed at what is offered. Personally, I think your D would have a good chance of admission at Pomona, and perhaps be in line for merit aid at Scripps. Don't sell her short, as she has already accomplished a lot!</p>

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<p>What kind of careers and majors is she considering -- something in the arts or is she considering very different options?</p>

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<p>myau wrote [in response to suggestions that myau's daughter consider taking a science class at a community college]:</p>

<p>
[quote]
She doesn't want to take any science classes except maybe at a good university (with good profs so there would be a chance for her to finally like it ... I doubt that c/college classes would be much of help in THAT), as some sort of "general" or "distribution" requirement.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I find this puzzling--why does she assume there are no good profs who could help her like the subject at a community college?</p>

<p>Community college faculty are typically hired PRIMARILY on the basis of their teaching ability, and they can be excellent teachers for first and second year college science classes, because they specialize in teaching those classes and are often much more enthusiastic about teaching those introductory classes than a professor at a "good" university would be.</p>

<p>A community college professor will often run her own lab and recitation sections and get to know her students much better than a professor at a "good university" would have time to do (because of competing demands from research, graduate teaching, etc.) A community college professor's top priority is teaching those first and second year classes.</p>

<p>Of course, there are good and bad professors everywhere, but I would not categorically rule out the possibility that community college faculty can be quite capable of fostering a love and understanding of a previously disliked subject, unless she has specific information about the particular science professors who teach at your local cc.</p>

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<p>Also, has she taken both French AP exams? There is a French language AP (widely offered) and a French literature AP (much less frequently offered.)</p>

<p>Signing up to do a self-study French lit AP (if she hasn't already done that one) would give her some flexibility and breathing space (since she could prepare more efficiently on her own--if she really likes French, she would enjoy reading some of the books starting this summer) and that should help make next year more relaxing.</p>