<p>cnp55 - I should have expected that. Just imply that everyone should have equal access to opportunity - something which is a core American value (or at least used to be) - and you will be labeled a Communist. I just think that the problem is not that we as individuals haven't rinsed out enough plastic bags but with the system.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>No car = + $9000 - lots of worry about their safety. It's a win-win for parents!>></p> </blockquote>
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<p>Actually the "worry factor" goes UP because your kids are riding with their FRIENDS. OR the inconvenience factor goes up (in rural areas like ours) because YOU are carpooling...</p>
<p>if you have a high efc, you have been living a good life. i understand that some may be upset to pay a lot for college, but guess what? expensive schools are not the only options. your options include state schools. however, i don't understand why people are upset now that they are looking at the price tags because they have been living good lives for the past 18 years. i hope that none of you are angry that some students get huge need based grants because they are too poor to foot the entire bill and probably too poor to pay for music lessons, dance lessons, private SAT tutoring, etc.</p>
<p>40k is a lot of money to come to terms with. we have done all we can do to ensure the oldest graduates from college without student loans--and no financial aid, either. i thought we would do the same for the second, but then the opportunity to attend a private lac came into play. we have struggled with the fact that he will probably have to utilitize student loans to attend this school. however, we want to avoid that as much as possible. so many things are running through our minds....downsizing the home, selling a car, a summer job for the son and a summer job for mom (teacher), too. we have decided that this opportunity far outweighs some of the small sacrifices we are willing to make. other parents tell us they wouldn't go that far for their kids to attend a school---so clearly everyone has different priorities. </p>
<p>my parents gave me a gift of a college education with nary a dime of a student loan to repay. i'm struggling with the fact that loans may be a possibility to help cover the 40k efc that we might face, too. but we are determined to do what we need to do for him to take advantage of this opportunity.</p>
<p>i sympathize with the op--yes, he is extremely fortunate to have a healthy family income--but still even if you've done all the efc calculators, it's still a shock when you see the numbers in black and white!</p>
<p>good luck to all parents as we sort through the admissions/financial aid/decisions process....keep in mind we should be so blessed as to have these difficult decisions to make</p>
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<blockquote> <p>i hope that none of you are angry that some students get huge need based grants because they are too poor to foot the entire bill and probably too poor to pay for music lessons, dance lessons, private SAT tutoring, etc.>></p> </blockquote>
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<p>I am not angry at all. Need based aid is for students who would not be able to attend college otherwise. It is for students who have a family income that doesn't support college costs. It is NOT for families like mine. I get more annoyed with posts here (and comments elsewhere) from families who have high EFCs due to income, inheritance, assets, savings, home equity, whatever, and are trying to figure out ways to hide those assets so that their EFCs will net them need based aid. THAT really angers me. The intent of need based finaid is to provide help to those who NEED help, not those who have somehow found ways to hide assets. We feel fortunate that we have been able to provide the things we have for our two kiddos. BUT having said all that, I am NOT too thrilled about paying $52 of my income next year on college bills on an AGI of $117K. This will be more than 2/3 of our take home pay. We still have our house (which I suppose we could sell), expenses for DH and me. Believe we are not extravagent in our spending. And for sure we will not be with two in college next year at the same time....or for the three following years paying the full COA for #2 to continue her schooling (yes, our choice...buy you KWIM) when she will not get a school grant because we will have no need at all. We are lucky to have assets against which we can borrow. Those who do not have the assets deserve the need based aid....not us.</p>
<p>I consider need based aid to be valuable.
Even if my D didn't directly benefit by receiving enough aid to allow her to attend a school that is more expensive than Harvard, she benefits because need based aid supports a diverse student body. Not just one that is full of students whose parents are willing and able to make the full financial commitment to their education, but those students who despite not having the financial resources growing up, were still able to acheive similar academic standing .</p>
<p>Quote: "if you have a high efc, you have been living a good life."</p>
<p>Yes, life is good. However, I agree with the sentiment of many posters that this good life was not handed to many of us on a silver platter. Some of us have worked very hard our entire lives, and now may be blessed with some of the fruits of our labor because of some choices we have made along the way! Do not assume that life for us in the past was any different than some of those now complaining....</p>
<p>This entire discussion should make it clear that planning for your children's education is something that should begin as early as possible. We began prior to our son's birth. We had purchased a new(well it was built in 1876)home a few months prior to his birth. We took a $7000 chunk out of the capital gain from the sale of our first house and invested it in a college fund for him. My mother gifted him $7500 at the same time and 18 years later he had a $76,000 college fund. We never had to save another penny.</p>
<p>Did this significantly increase our EFC? Yes! Did it have some adverse tax consequences? Yes! Were we fortunate with our investment decisions? Yes! But it also provided peace of mind realizing that he would be able to attend any college regardless of cost. He realized that he would be able to complete college loan free if he made some intelligent choices.</p>
<p>Unfortunately for most people here it is too late to adapt this strategy for their children. BUT, when those grandchildren come along, and if you have the savings to spare, would it be wonderful if you did what my mother did. We certainly plan to do this.</p>
<p>I agree with the last few posts. We invested for our kids' education from the time they were born. We have both worked our entire lives, not just the last couple of years.
We also feel that our kids benefit from being among a diverse community of students and that need-based aid is a major way of achieving this diversity.</p>
<p>"I get more annoyed with posts here (and comments elsewhere) from families who have high EFCs due to income, inheritance, assets, savings, home equity, whatever, and are trying to figure out ways to hide those assets so that their EFCs will net them need based aid. THAT really angers me. The intent of need based finaid is to provide help to those who NEED help, not those who have somehow found ways to hide assets." </p>
<p>i wrote the post with these people in mind.</p>
<p>"Yes, life is good. However, I agree with the sentiment of many posters that this good life was not handed to many of us on a silver platter. Some of us have worked very hard our entire lives, and now may be blessed with some of the fruits of our labor because of some choices we have made along the way! Do not assume that life for us in the past was any different than some of those now complaining...."</p>
<p>do you mean that these people work hard in offices? what kind of jobs pay enough for someone to have an EFC in the thousands of dollars? i'm not saying that people with high EFCs don't work hard, but i doubt that they had to wash dishes until their skin starts bleeding, or that they had to work as a food servers lugging around huge trays of food or huge carts full of detergents and clean sheets for a living.</p>
<p>I think the high EFC is all relative to a person's situation. I have seen posting of CC students whose parents have 2000 EFC, and don't know where the money is going to pay it. </p>
<p>SO for a family in this situation, some feel that they might as well be paying 40,000 because for them coming up with 2000 is like coming up with $40,000. Sometimes I think that we do get jaded and start to point fingers at people who are less fortunate. </p>
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[quote]
However, I agree with the sentiment of many posters that this good life was not handed to many of us on a silver platter. Some of us have worked very hard our entire lives, and now may be blessed with some of the fruits of our labor because of some choices we have made along the way
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<p>I believe that the majority of parents trying to put thier kids through college works hard. Like Elizabeth stated in her posting: does the person who washes dishes until their skin starts bleeding, or that they had to work as a food servers lugging around huge trays of food or huge carts full of detergents and clean sheets for a living works any less hard, than someone who sits behind a desk? It is all relative.</p>
<p>There is a big difference between those who do not have the $$ and have a genuine need vs. those who make really good money and have spent that past 18 years letting the good times roll and are now having this great light bulb moment that they will have to pay for college, the system is flawed. </p>
<p>Hello, this *system based upon measuring the student's or thier family's ability to pay for the cost of education as philosophy that aid should be awarded on the basis of need * has been in place for over 50 years so there is really nothing new here.</p>
<p>*1954
The College Scholarship Service (CSS) was founded by a cluster of 95 private colleges and universities located in the northeastern section of the country. This group developed a standard need analysis system to determine the financial need of student applicants. The system established criteria to measure college students and their families ability to contribute to their education based on family income and assets They developed a form to collect information from students and collected a fee from students for each college to which the information was sent.</p>
<p>The CSS need analysis system became the established method of allocating need-based aid.
*</p>
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do you mean that these people work hard in offices? what kind of jobs pay enough for someone to have an EFC in the thousands of dollars? i'm not saying that people with high EFCs don't work hard, but i doubt that they had to wash dishes until their skin starts bleeding, or that they had to work as a food servers lugging around huge trays of food or huge carts full of detergents and clean sheets for a living.
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<p>They probably aren't doing that <em>now</em> but don't be surprised if many of them were doing that 'back in the day' ... or their parents were.</p>
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They probably aren't doing that <em>now</em>
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<p>How many of us have been to a hotel where the sheets change and the rooms clean themselves? </p>
<p>Who do you think is doing this? </p>
<p>who is lugging these carts of sheets down to the laundry room? </p>
<p>Who is loading these machines, washing drying and folding sheets? </p>
<p>Ans: someone's parents and family members.</p>
<p>wow, this thread has sorta put things into perspective for me. here i am worrying about my 99,999 efc, but not realizing that i have lived an incredibly privileged life. anyways, my parents can and will take out loans, but to hear stories of families who drastically cut back on their spending to send their kids to college w/o debt is so touching. i wish i could convince my family of that, but it probably won't happen. all of your stories have really caused me to see that my efc is nothing to complain about...</p>
<p>Sybbie -- the post I quoted asked what kinds of jobs do people with high EFCs have ... and we all agree they are generally not the heavy manual labor minimum wage kind. But my point is that some of the people with large incomes <em>now</em> started out doing that kind of work. </p>
<p>My inlaws were immigrants working construction in NYC in the 50s. My husband joined them in the 70s, but was able to go to college, earn an engineering degree and an MBA and now works for a major homebuilder. We have a high EFC. My husband certainly started his career with dirty hands. This was my point.</p>
<p>both my parents started work as dishwashers at McDonald's...</p>
<p>Hotpiece,</p>
<p>It could be that your parents also want you to be invested in your education.</p>
<p>Thanks for the clarification</p>
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do you mean that these people work hard in offices? what kind of jobs pay enough for someone to have an EFC in the thousands of dollars? i'm not saying that people with high EFCs don't work hard, but i doubt that they had to wash dishes until their skin starts bleeding, or that they had to work as a food servers lugging around huge trays of food or huge carts full of detergents and clean sheets for a living.
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<p>People who wash dishes, change bed sheets, etc... most likely do not have EFCs of $40k, or, for that matter, annual incomes of $160k. They are eligible for need-based aid, very likely a full ride. They deserve every penny (and more) or what they earn, and every penny of the financial aid their kids receive.</p>
<p>What some posters, including myself, questioned, was the assumption contained in some posts that those of us who are able to pay full freights for our children's education have been sitting on our duff all along watching our trust funds grow.</p>
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Hotpiece,</p>
<p>It could be that your parents also want you to be invested in your education.
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i'm not really sure if that is the case, they complain about having to pay for school. my dad has even told me that if i get into an ivy league, i may still have to attend our crappy state u for economic reasons. i feel that if they wanted to be invested in my education, they would refrain from buying a new car (the third one in 4 yrs.) or moving into a huge house (6000 a month mortgage- only three people will be living there) so that i could attend the school of my dreams and have the best (IMO) educational experience.</p>