High Pay but High Debt

<p>Physician salaries may pay $400,000 plus, but what seems like the common theme is that after med-school these days your in debt $250,000. The doctors you see living in nice homes, and driving their BMWs went to school for much cheaper than the current generation, thus less debt. Maybe the reason is because they are from that earlier generation and they have paid their debt already. I am entering college in the fall and I am torn between a career in medicine, or one in patent law. I love science, and am thrilled with the oppurtunity to save many lives, but the impending quarter of a million bucks in the hole scares me a little. Maybe i have it all wrong, please help!</p>

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The doctors you see living in nice homes, and driving their BMWs went to school for much cheaper than the current generation, thus less debt.

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<p>Many are living the "doctor's lifestyle" way above their means and have significant personal debt and no savings(this goes for lawyers also). My accountant told me with managed care, one of his orthopedist clients was complaining of only earning $600K/year. "How can I live on that?", he asked the CPA.</p>

<p>Most doctors make way less than 400k, and leave med school with way less than 250k in debt. You are unlikely to get rich practicing medicine, but it is a good living, even after reasonable debt.</p>

<p>Also keep in mind that a good portion of your salary (Think in Canada, for people in the top yearly income percentile, it's nearly half) goes to income tax/other taxes or mandatory deductions.</p>

<p>It's a little scary that people are complaing about earning "only" $600K/year. Even after taxes, that's a lot of money! Kind of like the hockey players that were complaining about having a $1.2mil/year (or something like that) cap.</p>

<p>$400,000 plus might be a bit high now because of the rising medical malpractice insurance costs. I read somewhere that the average doctor makes closer to $200,000.</p>

<p>Still, even at that salary, you should be able to pay off your debt within 5-10 years. (Aren't interest rates on school loans really low and affordable? And don't forget...you will also be paying it off starting in your residency years when you're making 30 grand for 3-5 years!)</p>

<p>Look, if all you want is money, then don't become a doctor. Go to Wall Street and get into investment banking or some other area of high finance. The top investment bankers make far far more money than the top doctors ever will. Not only that, but they make their money far earlier in life (no need to be spending years as a 'resident' earning peanuts) , and because of the principle of the time-value of money, money earned earlier in your life is much more valuable than money earned later.</p>

<p>You should become a doctor because you really want to help sick and injured people, not because of the money.</p>

<p>The average primary care MD in private practice today makes about $165,000. That number is almost certain to fall steadily. Therefore, debt is a significant issue and it should, in these uncertain times, be minimized whenever possible. State schools are often a great approach, as is (for some) a medical career in the military.
In the end, financial gain must be a secondary goal for a physician. No matter what happens, you'll make an adequate living practicing medicine while deriving very high professional (though not commercial) satisfaction.</p>

<p>Summing Up AMSA's Big Picture On Student Debt:
"Medical student debt has reached a critical point. It places a significant burden on students and their families and also has far-reaching implications, many of which threaten to undermine the fundamental tenants of the profession. Achieving diversity in medicine, improving access to care, and addressing disparities in care are common missions for medicine, yet the current financing model continues to mitigate the modest gains that have been made in these critical areas."</p>

<p>As should be clear from the above, if you don't love medicine, you will probably hate being a doctor. For all the complaints, very few doctors give up practice and do something else. It is not about the money.</p>

<p>If only I could explain this to my mother. She, as well as many in my family, are intent on making me a doctor. However, if I do not feel that I will love my profession,--what is the purpose? When I try to explain this to her, she is almost disgusted by my unwillingness to pursue medicine anymore.</p>

<p>My only advice is to keep trying. I'm guessing you're Asian? (not trying to stereotype here)</p>

<p>I understand many Asian families (and actually, most families for that matter) equate doctors with being highly respected and highly paid. The respect thing may still be true but the pay has really taken a hit because of HMO's and the medical malpractice problems.</p>

<p>And you're absolutely right. If you don't think you'll enjoy it, the 8+ years to become a doctor are going to be absolute torture. I'm hoping your parents wouldn't wish that upon any of their children!</p>

<p>Actually, I am African-American--to be more precise, my parents are from Nigeria. Don't worry I don't think you are trying to stereotype; I take no offense. Many of my Asian friends are in the same predicament.</p>

<p>I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but many American-born children from African families deal with similar career pressures similar to Asians--be a doctor or an engineer. Everyone is big on the respect factor. I hear comments addressed to me daily such as, "Being a doctor is a noble profession.";"You are incredibly smart. Why would you not want to pursue medicine?"; "You are being lazy. That is why you don't want to be a doctor"; "You want to pursue humanities? That is foolish."</p>

<p>Now I avoid any conversations pertaining to college out of fear that it will delve into what I want to major in. My mother is intent on making me major in a science as well as pursue med school. I used to want to be a doctor, but things changed. I am more mature now. What I said when I was 12 cannot possibly have any basis for realistic thinking in comparison to my thinking now. I want to make my family proud, but I refuse to forego my own happiness in pursuit of that.</p>

<p>Do well at something you enjoy and your family will be well pleased with you, though perhaps a bit down the proverbial road.
As a personal aside, I grew up 2nd generation American (my grandparents immigrated from Russia) & for us it was all about medicine and respect and titles. However, today none of our kids are heading in that direction (all law, business, investment banking, etc.). Maybe it's just a stage a family needs to grow through.</p>

<p>When I was younger, I wanted to be a veterinarian. My mother's refrain was "why can't you be a 'real' doctor?". In college, I switched to pre-dental and heard the same refrain. Now that I'm a practicing dentist, I can tell you that everyone who comes in contact with my parents know about "their son the dentist".</p>

<p>haha</p>

<p>that's usually what happens</p>

<p>in the end, parents will probably be immensely proud of whatever profession you choose to enter</p>

<p>In the end, parents are really interested in whether you are truly happy in your life. The rest is just details. Really.</p>

<p>The reasons I would like my daughter to become a doctor are (and she agrees with me):
1) Reasonably good salary.
2) Not subject to market forces - I've not heard of doctors getting laid off.
3) Being able to work part time which will be important when bringing up kids - I do'nt know of any other decent paying career where one can work part time.
4) Not having to travel too much like investment bankers do. Being in banking and having travelled the world many times over, I can assure anyone that business travel is no fun.
5) Getting high professional satisfaction in saving lives and the respect that comes with it.</p>

<p>However, at the end of the day, I just want to see her happy regardless of what she does in life.</p>

<p>Dr. Sedrish - how much of a fall in salary do you think will happen over the years? Even with all the talk of high healthcare costs, I ca'nt see an internist making less than 100K when working full time. Though money is not the only factor its important, especially when she has to pay off college debt.</p>

<p>I would disagree with #2. Doctors have been forced to relocate a bit more now because of the medical insurance problems. (I know there is a huge shortage of physicians in central PA because so many doctors have been forced to practice elsewhere due to the high insurance premiums)</p>

<p>Nobody knows, but docs won't starve*. I would do it again, though I'd be smarter and rack up less debt along the way.
What I'm saying is #1 is essentially correct, 2 is probably as impactangel surmised, but 3, 4 & 5 are and will remain true and should make a good case for her to consider medicine. However, she has to feel fully committed to that plan and share your enthusiasm. I can remember nothing as pitiful as the few unwillings who were in my class.</p>

<p>(*hey, you want a guess? sure, why not: i think a steady erosion of 1-2% per year for the profession as a whole is likely over the next decade. I have no basis in fact for this; just my own observations of 'fee slippage' over the past 15 yrs.)</p>

<p>Dr. Sedrish....so you are saying that debt is now something you would have taken more seriosuly? I am turning down hopkins/stanford/duke premed to attend umd college park on a full scholarship...it is a decision that i am still having difficulty accepting...one of my main considerations was udnergrad debt...perhaps some words of encouragement?</p>